Crist: The great distaffers..

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Sky Beauty is a good example that not all horses are made for shipping. From what I understand, and granted maybe I got some bad info, she just fell apart when she had to get on a plane or traveled and great distance..

It's probably true, I remember John Veitch saying that she looked pretty bad prior to the 93 Distaff..

In 94 she was just abysmal at Churchill.. Hollywood Wildcat wasn't too much better that day either, as the favorite..

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Please … GZ blows a horse like MM off the track.

I was commenting on Quality Road's schedule compared to Ghostzapper's and Skip Away's.

I was basically lamenting the way horses are campaigned nowadays.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

It's probably true, I remember John Veitch saying that she looked pretty bad prior to the 93 Distaff..

In 94 she was just abysmal at Churchill.. Hollywood Wildcat wasn't too much better that day either, as the favorite..

the quote I got from someone he knew the horse pretty well the day of the race was "who is this horse", i guess she lost a lot of weight before both BC's. Maybe it was a seasonal thing.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I was commenting on Quality Road's schedule compared to Ghostzapper's and Skip Away's.

I was basically lamenting the way horses are campaigned nowadays.

it really ruins the sport doesnt it............

ok enough about the sport, lets commence back to the 5357 post on Zenyatta this month

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by rgustafson

Personal Ensign is without a doubt one of greatest fillies or mares ever. As has been stated, there was no reason for her to race anywhere other than where she did. An undefeated record that was capped by her win in the BC Distaff against Winning Colors, which imo may be the greatest race effort by any filly or mare period. I do think, however, we need to put her "beat males" achievment in perspective. That race was the Grade I Whitney at Saratoga. It was a three horse field and it was basically a match race between her and Gulch who had only one win from seven tries at 1 1/8 miles albeit against top company. The third horse in the field? King's Swan.

Gulch was defeated by Java Gold, Polish Navy, Lost Code, Cryptoclearance, Cutlass Reality, Alysheba, Bet Twice, and Personal Ensign. If I have my facts right, those are the only horses to beat him at 9f (at least in the 7 9f races I came up with).

I think it's pretty lofty company.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by CSC

It's too bad you cannot accept other people's opinions, if I or Davidowitz want to compare Personal Ensign to Zenyatta, in our opinion we can. Get over it. Who is to say your opinion is more correct than others.

You're a dolt. I never said you couldn't give your opinion. You never gave one. You had no answer to my original post, remember?

Try to follow Smooth Operator's lead, at least he comes back with some rebuttal other than "she's not retired yet".

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Gulch was defeated by Java Gold, Polish Navy, Lost Code, Cryptoclearance, Cutlass Reality, Alysheba, Bet Twice, and Personal Ensign. If I have my facts right, those are the only horses to beat him at 9f (at least in the 7 9f races I came up with).

I think it's pretty lofty company.

I'm still reeling from the unfair smackdown to the mighty Swan.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm still reeling from the unfair smackdown to the mighty Swan.

His jockey wore purple silks IIRC. He deserves everything he got on here.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm still reeling from the unfair smackdown to the mighty Swan.

I don't remember Swan but wasnt there a Kings Swan, and in particular a horse that got a bunch of bad rides as a maiden that cost me a fortune?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

You're a dolt. I never said you couldn't give your opinion. You never gave one. You had no answer to my original post, remember?

Try to follow Smooth Operator's lead, at least he comes back with some rebuttal other than "she's not retired yet".

Personal Ensign's race record is one of progression, essentially each successive start tougher than the last. Considering the injury, an element of heroism prevails.

Zenyatta's race record is one of ennui, same old song and dance. A cloud of evasion hangs over it.

Maybe you are unable to read or maybe you just avoid what I have stated a number of times already, here is what you said above, I clearly have stated let's wait until Zenyatta's career is over before making claims her race record of 'ennui'. But if if you ask me where she belongs, Zenyatta in my opinion already belongs with the greatest females of the game and this includes Personal Ensign. But I do understand why some others need to see more, I can accept that, I don't need anymore confirmation but yes it would be nice if she can prove it on BC day once and for all to the remaining sceptics.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I don't remember Swan but wasnt there a Kings Swan, and in particular a horse that got a bunch of bad rides as a maiden that cost me a fortune?

I was referring to Kings Swan ( I always remember some Aqueduct Stake that he toughed it out in under like 197 pounds and one of the Rastas saying " and NOOOOBODY passes the Swan " ).

He actually dealt Ogygian his first defeat and beat Gulch in the Tom Fool. He was also 5th behind Lady's Secret when she won the Whitney. He rocked.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I was referring to Kings Swan ( I always remember some Aqueduct Stake that he toughed it out in under like 197 pounds and one of the Rastas saying " and NOOOOBODY passes the Swan " ).

He actually dealt Ogygian his first defeat and beat Gulch in the Tom Fool. He was also 5th behind Lady's Secret when she won the Whitney. He rocked.

okay, maybe it was a son of his, just remember betting a mdn going to the grass for the first time at like 70/1 only to get the worst ride ever and lose by a length or so, think you bet it as well.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

okay, maybe it was a son of his, just remember betting a mdn going to the grass for the first time at like 70/1 only to get the worst ride ever and lose by a length or so, think you bet it as well.

He had no balls....and no sons.

I remember that maiden we bet as well. Wasn't it the last race at Belmont a few years ago?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by CSC

Maybe you are unable to read or maybe you just avoid what I have stated a number of times already, here is what you said above, I clearly have stated let's wait until Zenyatta's career is over before making claims her race record of 'ennui'. But if if you ask me where she belongs, Zenyatta in my opinion already belongs with the greatest females of the game and this includes Personal Ensign. But I do understand why some others need to see more, I can accept that, I don't need anymore confirmation but yes it would be nice if she can prove it on BC day once and for all to the remaining sceptics.

Nice try. I read your initial response to me when you first posted it. I said your point about waiting for Zenyatta to retire was "well taken". However, you made your point with respect to comparing her to Personal Ensign in any fashion. In my mind, that meant you didn't want to compare the two anymore. Sorry. I didn't silence you, you silenced yourself.

Now you try to re-attach your retirement cop-out to only part of my post, the "ennui" comment. Ok. I'll bite. I'm not sure how you can get around the monotony of Zenyatta's campaign. It's not like one big race at the end erases the meek spotting the rest of the year.

To be fair, I based my comment on the belief that the Clement Hirsch will be next. Maybe we'll see a bumrush at the end instead with the Woodward, Jockey Club Gold Cup, and BC Classic. Or the Hollywood Gold Cup, Pacific Classic, BC Classic.

I won't hold my breath.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Thanks for proving my point. You still think it's about the specific competitors.

he's a hopeless ejit. why do we still even bother?

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by rgustafson

I do think, however, we need to put her "beat males" achievment in perspective. That race was the Grade I Whitney at Saratoga. It was a three horse field and it was basically a match race between her and Gulch who had only one win from seven tries at 1 1/8 miles albeit against top company. The third horse in the field? King's Swan.

Clearly some impressive mares on Crist's list … but there's always a tendency to over-glorify some of the achievements of past runners.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Don't forget, according to one of the Zenyattards here, Goldikova is nothing since she couldn't win the BCC, which is the only race that matters (unless Z doesn't run there).

I believe, but I could be mistaken, that it was the smoothest of the Zenyattards that said that.

I consider classic distance runners inherently superior to sprinters and strict milers, Indian boy.

If this Goldilocks is so great, why didn't they stick her in the BCC (or the BCT) last year?

Not surprisingly, both of those contests have significantly higher purses than the BCM.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He had no balls....and no sons.

I remember that maiden we bet as well. Wasn't it the last race at Belmont a few years ago?

yup, and we bet the horse back at half the odds to get the same horrid ride...think he finally won a race or two later at about 4/1.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by CSC

Watch yourself, it is blasphemy to compare any horse to Personal Ensign on this board.

Hang in there, bro

If Z can somehow, someway manage to take the BCC again this year, gunna need your help delivering all these servings of crow...

[Smooth Operator]

By the way, why was the Suburban shortened?

Is the JCGC the only major race in the east contested at ten furlongs now???