American Pharoah... what's next for our new Champion? (The Haskell)

[jnunan4759]

I agree 100% with jms. With 2 of your bigger owners, no sense to beat each other up. There are plenty of spots before the BC for each and they are nice races. Dortmund could take the Saratoga/Belmont route. He's a very good horse and I think this time off will have done him some good. He had a strenuous campaign this year. He may come back bigger and better than ever.

Baffert is very good at this. He's juggled multiple good horses for multiple owners over the years and kept them happy. Either the NY or SoCal route makes sense for Dortmund and he should actually be able to withstand it due to not running in all the TC races.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

Good sign. He was kind of worked up in the SA parade on Saturday. That's understandable, horses are creatures of habit, like us, and that was an interruption of the normal.

If you look at it, it's perfect timing for 2 more works before the Haskell. If they were going to the Travers, no reason to do anymore than jog and gallop right now and start works in about 2-3 weeks..

Trainers don't "work" horses without a target. Unless he hit's a bump, I think that's the target for sure.

Two more works? He will work 4 times between now and the Haskell. The Haskell is on August 2nd. He will work every 6-7 days between now and then. He will work on either July 6th or 7th, then again on or about July 13th, then again on or about July 20th, then on or about July 26th.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Thanks, I didn't realize that.




That makes it seem even more unlikely that AP will go to MTH.

Look Dortmund goes in TRAVERS IMO that has always been plan Baffert KNOWS AP will trounce him and Baffert KNOWS Shah would love a stallion making G! Travers on Dortmund's resume.. Dortmund is no bum and wiring the Travers is very realistic. AP has done enough till BCC Haskell MAYBE PAC Classic and last race BCC..

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Look Dortmund goes in TRAVERS IMO that has always been plan Baffert KNOWS AP will trounce him and Baffert KNOWS Shah would love a stallion making G! Travers on Dortmund's resume.. Dortmund is no bum and wiring the Travers is very realistic. AP has done enough till BCC Haskell MAYBE PAC Classic and last race BCC..

I doubt he faces elders until the Classic. Though the JCGC should be every owners goal.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Look Dortmund goes in TRAVERS IMO that has always been plan Baffert KNOWS AP will trounce him and Baffert KNOWS Shah would love a stallion making G! Travers on Dortmund's resume.. Dortmund is no bum and wiring the Travers is very realistic. AP has done enough till BCC Haskell MAYBE PAC Classic and last race BCC..

Don't expect to see Dortmund very soon. He's worked twice, ten days apart and is reportedly still very underweight.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Look Dortmund goes in TRAVERS IMO that has always been plan Baffert KNOWS AP will trounce him and Baffert KNOWS Shah would love a stallion making G! Travers on Dortmund's resume.. Dortmund is no bum and wiring the Travers is very realistic. AP has done enough till BCC Haskell MAYBE PAC Classic and last race BCC..

Freddy - He's barely beaten Firing Line....twice. That's his claim to fame thus far.

A G!(sic) Travers win will not promote him to "Stallion Making" status any more than it did for V.E. Day. If healthy, he'll be back at 4, and likely 5.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Freddy - He's barely beaten Firing Line....twice. That's his claim to fame thus far.

A G!(sic) Travers win will not promote him to "Stallion Making" status any more than it did for V.E. Day. If healthy, he'll be back at 4, and likely 5.

Clearly you have a lack of respect for the mighty Dortmund.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Clearly you have a lack of respect for the mighty Dortmund.

Dortmund sweeps the stalls after AP leaves for a walk or whatever. Nice horse but Dortmund may also carry AP's horse shoes in a bag for him. I hate to say it but Dortmund is very forgettable.

Prestige-wise for AP is Haskell, Travers (nothing better this time of year, nothing) and then BC Classic. Not sure that's in the cards for him but if I owned him and Bobby gave me the thumbs up on his conditioning . . . no brainer.

If and it is a big if, he were to run the table he may get his head carved into Mount Rushmore!!!

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by DonGuido

Dortmund sweeps the stalls after AP leaves for a walk or whatever. Nice horse but Dortmund may also carry AP's horse shoes in a bag for him. I hate to say it but Dortmund is very forgettable.

Prestige-wise for AP is Haskell, Travers (nothing better this time of year, nothing) and then BC Classic. Not sure that's in the cards for him but if I owned him and Bobby gave me the thumbs up on his conditioning . . . no brainer.

If and it is a big if, he were to run the table he may get his head carved into Mount Rushmore!!!

You're a sharp one. I never mentioned AP. Its not fair to compare Dortmund to him all of the time.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

You're a sharp one. I never mentioned AP. Its not fair to compare Dortmund to him all of the time.

And DUH . . . you just gave me the platform . . . comprende'? Why take it so personal? Or am I being too intuitive? Lets talk about the horse or his supposed challengers and not diss on those of us pee-ons who only post here only because they have nothing else better to do. But it's so much fun for many of you . . . booooooooooring!

Or, and I apologize if I did . . . did I misunderstand your innuendo?

[jnunan4759]

No SPA. Haskell and PA Derby. Although Dortmund could be a real possibility in the Travers. Wouldn't be surprised for him to find a spot for Lord Nelson, too.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

No SPA. Haskell and PA Derby. Although Dortmund could be a real possibility in the Travers. Wouldn't be surprised for him to find a spot for Lord Nelson, too.

Lord Nelson needs 1 turn. Kings Bishop would be ideal, other then Nevins horse who would you be afraid to run against if you owned Lord Nelson?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Freddy - He's barely beaten Firing Line....twice. That's his claim to fame thus far.

A G!(sic) Travers win will not promote him to "Stallion Making" status any more than it did for V.E. Day. If healthy, he'll be back at 4, and likely 5.

But VE day wasn't a multiple grade 1 winner. Dortmund won a grade 1 at 2 years old and winning the travers would give him multiple grade 1 wins at 3. His two losses were to the first triple crown winner in almost 40 years including a respectable 3rd in the derby.

If Dortmund was by ap Indy out of some blue hen mare, I would think a win in the travers would be big for his resume. Are you basing your statement on his breeding?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Look Dortmund goes in TRAVERS IMO that has always been plan Baffert KNOWS AP will trounce him and Baffert KNOWS Shah would love a stallion making G! Travers on Dortmund's resume.. Dortmund is no bum and wiring the Travers is very realistic. AP has done enough till BCC Haskell MAYBE PAC Classic and last race BCC..

After the running of the Gold Cup, I don't think they have anything to fear in facing elders in the Pacific Classic.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Freddy - He's barely beaten Firing Line....twice. That's his claim to fame thus far.

A G!(sic) Travers win will not promote him to "Stallion Making" status any more than it did for V.E. Day. If healthy, he'll be back at 4, and likely 5.

By the time VE Day broke his maiden (2nd week of May) Dortmund had won four graded stakes and 2 Grade Is. He also finished third in the Ky Derby. There is absolutely, positively no comparison between their respective resumes if Dortmund were to win the Travers, as big an "if" as that is.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Look Dortmund goes in TRAVERS IMO that has always been plan Baffert KNOWS AP will trounce him and Baffert KNOWS Shah would love a stallion making G! Travers on Dortmund's resume.. Dortmund is no bum and wiring the Travers is very realistic. AP has done enough till BCC Haskell MAYBE PAC Classic and last race BCC..

Originally Posted by dalakhani

But VE day wasn't a multiple grade 1 winner. Dortmund won a grade 1 at 2 years old and winning the travers would give him multiple grade 1 wins at 3. His two losses were to the first triple crown winner in almost 40 years including a respectable 3rd in the derby.

If Dortmund was by ap Indy out of some blue hen mare, I would think a win in the travers would be big for his resume. Are you basing your statement on his breeding?

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

By the time VE Day broke his maiden (2nd week of May) Dortmund had won four graded stakes and 2 Grade Is. He also finished third in the Ky Derby. There is absolutely, positively no comparison between their respective resumes if Dortmund were to win the Travers, as big an "if" as that is.

I wasn't actually comparing V.E. Day to Dortmund; I was point out that a Travers win will do the same for Dortmund as it did for him.

Dortmund's form is so fluffed up that it would embarrass anyone who actually would take a moment to delve into it.

Los Al Futurity – won a 3 horse photo against the aforementioned Firing Line (who would later outfinish him in the Derby) and the Indomitable Mr. Z. The fourth place horse would come back to win an overnight restricted stake, and is winless since. The Fifth place horse is still winless.

Robert B Lewis – Beat Firing Line by a head, the third place horse by 22 lengths, who is still, along with the rest of the field – winless.

San Vincente – Won by a length in a 10 horse field… Impressive. Except when you look at what he beat:

Prospect Park – 0 for 2 since
Bolo –1 for 3 since. just won an allowance N1X
Lord Nelson – 0 for 2 since
The Gompter - 0 for 2 since
Pain and Misery 1 for 3 since. Just took down the prestigious “Charles Taylor Derby” at Albuquerque.
Ocho Ocho Ocho - 0 for 2 since
Sir Samson – unraced since
Kenjisstorm – 1 for 2 since. The win? A maiden claiming 30K

So the field is 3 for 18 out of the San Vincente; those 3 wins coming by way of a mcl 30, a N1X, and of course the toast of Albuquerque


Santa Anita Derby- Beat 5 others, scoring in a hand ride by almost 5 lengths.
One Lucky Dane – unraced since
Bolo – See Above
Prospect Park – See Above
Cross the Line – 0 for 2 since, well beaten in a AOC affair last
Bad Read Sanchez – unraced since.

So nothing has come out of the Santa Anita Derby to win a race.

My opinion hasn't changed - This horse has been dressed up since Day 1 and hasn't beaten anything of note (save for Firing Line, who is a very nice horse, but not a champion by anyone's count) in his life.

A Travers win, however unlikely (as Nick pointed out), should do nothing to bolster his resume unless he plans to stand in Louisiana, California, or overseas.

[Port Conway Lane]

I don't think there is a major prep leading up to and including the Belmont that any winner's resume was enhanced by the runners behind them. Dortmund is one of the top runners of this crop to this point.I'd like to see a strong case made for two others.

[Kasept]

http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/stor...c-stallion-fee

$200k+ says Darren Rovell after talking with Zayat..

[blackthroatedwind]

Thanks for making me laugh.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

I wasn't actually comparing V.E. Day to Dortmund; I was point out that a Travers win will do the same for Dortmund as it did for him.

Dortmund's form is so fluffed up that it would embarrass anyone who actually would take a moment to delve into it.

Los Al Futurity – won a 3 horse photo against the aforementioned Firing Line (who would later outfinish him in the Derby) and the Indomitable Mr. Z. The fourth place horse would come back to win an overnight restricted stake, and is winless since. The Fifth place horse is still winless.

Robert B Lewis – Beat Firing Line by a head, the third place horse by 22 lengths, who is still, along with the rest of the field – winless.

San Vincente – Won by a length in a 10 horse field… Impressive. Except when you look at what he beat:

Prospect Park – 0 for 2 since
Bolo –1 for 3 since. just won an allowance N1X
Lord Nelson – 0 for 2 since
The Gompter - 0 for 2 since
Pain and Misery 1 for 3 since. Just took down the prestigious “Charles Taylor Derby” at Albuquerque.
Ocho Ocho Ocho - 0 for 2 since
Sir Samson – unraced since
Kenjisstorm – 1 for 2 since. The win? A maiden claiming 30K

So the field is 3 for 18 out of the San Vincente; those 3 wins coming by way of a mcl 30, a N1X, and of course the toast of Albuquerque


Santa Anita Derby- Beat 5 others, scoring in a hand ride by almost 5 lengths.
One Lucky Dane – unraced since
Bolo – See Above
Prospect Park – See Above
Cross the Line – 0 for 2 since, well beaten in a AOC affair last
Bad Read Sanchez – unraced since.

So nothing has come out of the Santa Anita Derby to win a race.

My opinion hasn't changed - This horse has been dressed up since Day 1 and hasn't beaten anything of note (save for Firing Line, who is a very nice horse, but not a champion by anyone's count) in his life.

A Travers win, however unlikely (as Nick pointed out), should do nothing to bolster his resume unless he plans to stand in Louisiana, California, or overseas.

Mr Z is a nice horse Bolo, 888, Prospect Park all can be graded winners they all have talent. Firing Line is VERY GOOD. I think the Travers is a perfect spot for Dortmund. You avoid squaring off against AP and IF and its a big IF you win Mid summer Derby arguably the 2nd most prestigious colt race its a huge feather in his cap. You combine the SA Derby and Travers on a stallion resume and you have a full book of mares at a solid opening price point.

If you are Baffert and you have a big owner like Shah you certainly want to enter the Travers as no less then 4th most likely winner. Save AP who would be a dominate favorite in Travers? I think he is pretty good and I think IF he returns to his early form he will be a handful against any of what we have seen to date save AP