PETA undercover in Asmussen's barn - Whoa!

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

You might as well asterisk all horses then since someone else prepped them and broke them, not to mention the tremendous amount of work a lay-up farm does for the horse.

More recently, I'm impressed with the horse that Tapiture has become. A couple months ago, he was a bad actor. Someone has done a fine job schooling this colt.

Of course, but I wouldn't use Curlin and Rachel as two examples of oustanding training achievement by Assumussen.

Anyone could have done well with those two horses.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

Of course, but I wouldn't use Curlin and Rachel as two examples of oustanding training achievement by Assumussen.

Anyone could have done well with those two horses.

Again, this is not Assmussen specific.

Everyone knows Dixie aka Speed Boys aka Blue Eyes called all of the shots with Citation and Coaltown, but we all know who made the HOF.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i find it strange that sport under attack would include such a person on their hall of fame ballot.
everyone knows the mans reputation. it's appalling to me that anyone employs him. that he has both a derby and oaks prospect. that this discussion is even taking place.
i think he should take a leave of absence while the investigations proceed. i don't think he should return til they conclude.
i find it very, very sad that such a person still has a huge operation knowing what all has occurred over the years of his career. his rap sheet is pages upon pages long. other trainers toil in obscurity, and cleanly, while he (and some others) gets good horses. it's a shame, and a black mark on this sport. lots of good trainers out there without all the baggage.

do we want a clean sport or not?

This is a great post.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

This is a great post.

thanks.

i'd been relatively quiet til now on this. i think everyone knows my thoughts on this trainer. and i sure didn't want anyone to take any criticisms of him as somehow being support for peta, as i don't care for them either. i didn't want to be viewed as in any way defending or supporting either of these entities.

it's almost like when a convict rats on another criminal. doesn't mean it didn't happen, just because the source of the info is unsavory.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Pants II

The solution was to spend $30-$40 for an online background check of an American girl looking for work in the barn.

Now the solution is to make Bob Costas interim trainer. He's the most perfect human on the planet.

even better!

Originally Posted by Danzig

i find it strange that sport under attack would include such a person on their hall of fame ballot.
everyone knows the mans reputation. it's appalling to me that anyone employs him. that he has both a derby and oaks prospect. that this discussion is even taking place.
i think he should take a leave of absence while the investigations proceed. i don't think he should return til they conclude.
i find it very, very sad that such a person still has a huge operation knowing what all has occurred over the years of his career. his rap sheet is pages upon pages long. other trainers toil in obscurity, and cleanly, while he (and some others) gets good horses. it's a shame, and a black mark on this sport. lots of good trainers out there without all the baggage.

do we want a clean sport or not?

I agree. Its funny how he gets suspended and or fined and his operations still get to operate under a different name till he comes back on "vacation". The owners know well and clear of his reputation and I find it even funnier how surprised Zayat was at this. A great act he put on display on Twitter. Dont tell me you own million(s) dollars worth of horses and you have no clue whats going behind barn doors.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he does enough embarrassing himself, peta doesn't need to help him.

it's a huge two days for the sport, i'd hate to see his issues have a negative affect on the largest racing day of the year. the sport doesn't need a black eye, especially at the derby when there's so much more media attention.
and yes, lots of trainers get infractions. not too many get so many, or several 6 month suspensions that they serve concurrently...and i doubt very many get derby horses either.
it's too bad that owners continue to use some of these trainers, who break rules repeatedly...heck, that's probably why some owners hire some trainers-they want to win no matter what. and we all know the saying ' if you're not cheating, you're not trying'.

people step away from their jobs all the time while being investigated. it doesn't mean they've been found guilty or indicate guilt in any way.

The reality is that if PETA is going to try and embarrass him or the sport, they will do it whether he is there or not. Especially if he has horses running in the big races. I'm sure there will be something mentioned in the broadcast about it. That's going to happen if he attends or doesn't.

I'm not defending Asmussen or his record. Just don't see why he should have to step away from his job because a tape surfaced with where one of his employees swore a lot.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

The reality is that if PETA is going to try and embarrass him or the sport, they will do it whether he is there or not. Especially if he has horses running in the big races. I'm sure there will be something mentioned in the broadcast about it. That's going to happen if he attends or doesn't.

I'm not defending Asmussen or his record. Just don't see why he should have to step away from his job because a tape surfaced with where one of his employees swore a lot.

you think that's a correct summation of the video?


you have a multiple violator of many and sundry rules of the sport. to the point where several racing jurisdictions had given him longer than normal suspensions. too bad they allowed him to serve those sentences concurrently, rather than consecutively.
then, you have the sport who says it wants to 'clean up' have this 'gentleman' on its hall of fame ballot. you have a video and a 275 page report, leading to the firing of an almost two decade long top assistant. the loss of a big owner with deep pockets, and two racing jurisdictions opening investigations.
yeah, it's just profanity....
he should not be there derby and oaks day. it's too bad owners hire him, give their stock to him. it's like hiring bobby petrino-whose fault is it when things go wrong because of ethics? the snake you hired, or you for hiring him?
an assistant should saddle, and he should stay out of the glare. will it get mention? of course. should he be there so they can add questions of why he's there along with all the rest of the mess? no.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

The reality is that if PETA is going to try and embarrass him or the sport, they will do it whether he is there or not. Especially if he has horses running in the big races. I'm sure there will be something mentioned in the broadcast about it. That's going to happen if he attends or doesn't.

I'm not defending Asmussen or his record. Just don't see why he should have to step away from his job because a tape surfaced with where one of his employees swore a lot.

Just wanted to say yes I agree, they will whether he is there of not.

That said it's a question of scale.

If he isn't there? Some of these...



... a small but very vocal group of protesters, a bit of coverage.

If he is there though?

Whoa it has the potential to get very ugly very quickly and his mere presence will show anyone who cares to pay attention that the sport, as a whole, does NOTHING when confronted with issues such as this.

Again, I respectfully agree with Danzig's post above.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you think that's a correct summation of the video?


you have a multiple violator of many and sundry rules of the sport. to the point where several racing jurisdictions had given him longer than normal suspensions. too bad they allowed him to serve those sentences concurrently, rather than consecutively.
then, you have the sport who says it wants to 'clean up' have this 'gentleman' on its hall of fame ballot. you have a video and a 275 page report, leading to the firing of an almost two decade long top assistant. the loss of a big owner with deep pockets, and two racing jurisdictions opening investigations.
yeah, it's just profanity....
he should not be there derby and oaks day. it's too bad owners hire him, give their stock to him. it's like hiring bobby petrino-whose fault is it when things go wrong because of ethics? the snake you hired, or you for hiring him?
an assistant should saddle, and he should stay out of the glare. will it get mention? of course. should he be there so they can add questions of why he's there along with all the rest of the mess? no.

It's a tape that has been doctored up. His assistant being fired was a PR move all the way.

What in that tape warrants him to step away from his job? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I get that he's a repeat offender and I'll mention again that I am not defending him or his actions.

But taking personal feelings about him out of the equation for a second, what has he done wrong based on the video? Running horses who aren't 100%? There'd be no races ever if that was the case.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Just wanted to say yes I agree, they will whether he is there of not.

That said it's a question of scale.

If he isn't there? Some of these...



... a small but very vocal group of protesters, a bit of coverage.

If he is there though?

Whoa it has the potential to get very ugly very quickly and his mere presence will show anyone who cares to pay attention that the sport, as a whole, does NOTHING when confronted with issues such as this.

Again, I respectfully agree with Danzig's post above.

thanks again.

but, the bigger problem than if he's there on derby day....
why are these trainers given pass after pass? why do owners hire them? when will the sport do something? or does it only say it will do something, but not really do anything, because they don't want to irritate the owners? they have (in some cases) pretty deep pockets. if they take their dough and go home, that hurts racing. but so do crooked trainers.
the trainers who cheat don't just affect derby day...they don't just have an affect when peta has a video. it's a constant problem, day in and day out at tracks everywhere.

asmussen isn't the problem. he's one of the symptoms of the problem.
why don't owners understand that there are good quality trainers without the clouds of suspicion? that you can win while doing it right?

does anyone think peta didn't know what they were doing by going after this particular trainer? people say 'oh, it's peta' because what else can they say? they did well in choosing who they chose. anyone who tries to defend the guy is going to get called out for defending someone who is a repeat offender of the rules of the sport.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Just wanted to say yes I agree, they will whether he is there of not.

That said it's a question of scale.

If he isn't there? Some of these...



... a small but very vocal group of protesters, a bit of coverage.

If he is there though?

Whoa it has the potential to get very ugly very quickly and his mere presence will show anyone who cares to pay attention that the sport, as a whole, does NOTHING when confronted with issues such as this.

Again, I respectfully agree with Danzig's post above.

And I respectfully disagree.

Part of racings problem has been overreacting (synthetic tracks are a great example of this) anytime we start to get some bad press.

Wanting someone to not show up for work on Derby Day because of that tape screams of overreaction to me.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

It's a tape that has been doctored up. His assistant being fired was a PR move all the way.

What in that tape warrants him to step away from his job? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I get that he's a repeat offender and I'll mention again that I am not defending him or his actions.

But taking personal feelings about him out of the equation for a second, what has he done wrong based on the video? Running horses who aren't 100%? There'd be no races ever if that was the case.

no, it's a tape that's been edited. not doctored. no one is denying anything that was said.
i think you're still oversimplifying. there's more to it than them saying they ran horses at less than 100%.
it's not just that tape that has me saying he should stay away. two racing jurisdictions, two of the largest in the country (one being ky) are conducting investigations based on the video and the report compiled by peta.

yes, it's peta. so, we just ignore the entire message because we don't like the messenger? we just conduct business as usual?
doing the right thing isn't always easy. sometimes it's painful. but at this point, i think the sport would be better off if people like SA were not involved.
had the kid gloves come off several years back, we wouldn't be having this discussion now. people keep saying we don't want the feds invovled. well, talk is cheap. keep turning a blind eye, and then we can some day discuss why things went south.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

And I respectfully disagree.

Part of racings problem has been overreacting (synthetic tracks are a great example of this) anytime we start to get some bad press.

Wanting someone to not show up for work on Derby Day because of that tape screams of overreaction to me.

it's not just the tape. geez.

'Asmussen's nomination to the Hall of Fame was put on hold on Friday while two state racing commissions conduct an investigation after a video surfaced appearing to show horses being drugged.

The National Museum of Racing announced it was in its "best interests" to table its nomination of Asmussen, known as one of the top trainers of race horses in the United States.

Asmussen is the target of probes by the New York State Racing Commission and Kentucky Horse Racing Commission Communications, both organizations confirmed.'


edit--and i was wrong, it's not a 275 page report. it's 285.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no, it's a tape that's been edited. not doctored. no one is denying anything that was said.
i think you're still oversimplifying. there's more to it than them saying they ran horses at less than 100%.
it's not just that tape that has me saying he should stay away. two racing jurisdictions, two of the largest in the country (one being ky) are conducting investigations based on the video and the report compiled by peta.

yes, it's peta. so, we just ignore the entire message because we don't like the messenger? we just conduct business as usual?
doing the right thing isn't always easy. sometimes it's painful. but at this point, i think the sport would be better off if people like SA were not involved.
had the kid gloves come off several years back, we wouldn't be having this discussion now. people keep saying we don't want the feds invovled. well, talk is cheap. keep turning a blind eye, and then we can some day discuss why things went south.

It's been edited to fit an agenda. Months and months of tape was condensed into a few minutes to spark outrage (mission accomplished).

What is the right thing here? Thinking he should have to step away from his job because of the video? Don't agree.

Maybe the sport would be better off without some trainers. I'm of the opinion that if you are going to take away someone's livelihood, you need a better reason than that video. You can't punish him now, again, for what he has done in the past.

So I'll ask again, what in the video did you see, that warrants him stepping away?

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's not just the tape. geez.

'Asmussen's nomination to the Hall of Fame was put on hold on Friday while two state racing commissions conduct an investigation after a video surfaced appearing to show horses being drugged.

The National Museum of Racing announced it was in its "best interests" to table its nomination of Asmussen, known as one of the top trainers of race horses in the United States.

Asmussen is the target of probes by the New York State Racing Commission and Kentucky Horse Racing Commission Communications, both organizations confirmed.'


edit--and i was wrong, it's not a 275 page report. it's 285.

It is because of the tape. Were people calling for him not to show up before the tape?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

Maybe the sport would be better off without some trainers. I'm of the opinion that if you are going to take away someone's livelihood, you need a better reason than that video. You can't punish him now, again, for what he has done in the past.

What about the people who have lost their livelihoods because of guys like Asmussen and his ilk? Shouldn't the system be more concerned about protecting their right to earn an honest living?

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

What about the people who have lost their livelihoods because of guys like Asmussen and his ilk? Shouldn't the system be more concerned about protecting their right to earn an honest living?

You'll get no argument from me about the system being broke. Let's fix the system.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

What about the people who have lost their livelihoods because of guys like Asmussen and his ilk? Shouldn't the system be more concerned about protecting their right to earn an honest living?

How has Asmussen (and others like him) caused other people to lose their livelihoods?

I am no fan of him, but other than potentially hiring undocumented workers (and allegedly faking papers for them), there's nothing in there that is illegal, and if a trainer should step away from the Derby for hiring undocumented workers, I suspect there would be many more than just Asmussen.

Until the allegations are proved, he's innocent in the eyes of the law. It's not his job to give racing a good image; it's his job to win races for his clients. If the owners are concerned about how things look, they are free to move their horses (and personally, I think Zayat's moving his had more to do with Blasi calling him a name, that meanie! The wealthy are very sensitive and their feelings get hurt easily. We must protect them at all costs from the cold, cruel world). If racing fans should be angry at anyone, it should be at the owners who stayed with him, who clearly care more about winning races than how racing looks to Joe Q Public who doesn't follow the sport. I would wager money (and probably more successfully than I have in the Derby the last few years) that Asmussen doesn't feel he's done anything wrong. If you were accused of something you felt was untrue at your job, would you voluntarily give up your livelihood to make your field of work "look better"? Or would you say, "eff you, prove it first"?

Again, I'm not a fan of his work, as they say, but at this point, demanding he step back from training his Derby/Oaks horses smacks of Polytrack- knee-jerk responding. Horse racing has a lotta image problems (the biggest, and most insurmountable probably being modern US society infantilizing animals that we don't like to eat), but Asmussen stepping down isn't going to do step one towards actually addressing any of them.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

It is because of the tape. Were people calling for him not to show up before the tape?

it is because of the tape, the report...and the investigations being conducted right now by nyra and kentucky. i'm sorry you think it's only about the tape, and not what the tape revealed.


and you want to fix the system. well, then let's start right now, with asmussen being ruled off the track while two racing entities conduct thorough investigations into very serious allegations.