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#1
10-09-2006, 08:02 PM
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Secretariat Vs. Spectacular Bid
I think what is funny about this topic is the idea that to even have the debate is blasphemy. The Secretariat group act as if it isn't even a question, that to bring him up against any horse would be a crime. To me, that is closed minded. I'm always happy to listen to people's opinions on horses of the past and hardly ever criticize them as long as they can show some justification. I also am not the type to heap praise on horses, in fact I am very reserved with regards to this unless I see something truly special. I saw that with Mineshaft which was well known on the ESPN board and I would say very well argued by me. I realize 99% of people would disagree with me about Mineshaft but did I make the case clearly and back it up, without a doubt. But what people have wrong here is the idea that I try to convince people about these things. I simply don't....But at the same time I've never given my reasons for the Spectacular Bid call so I might as well now.
Ok. So if people can simply be open-minded for a few paragraphs, here goes: First let me recognize that Sec. is one of a handful of the greatest horses of all-time. I don't deny that and never have. But I think what has happened to Sec. in a lot of respects is that the Belmont has completely altered the debate about him from then on. If you put that much stock in a single race(and I know he had many other brilliant performances), then you can argue as I have in the past that Riboletta might well have been better than Azeri. For sure her best races were far faster than any Azeri race, but that is unfair to Azeri who danced most of the dances and was extremely game in every one. Remarkably their careers are similar in a lot of respects. Their first race was the best price you'd see on either of them for the rest of their careers. 3-1 on Sec, and 6-1 on the Bid. After that, its chalk city till the end. At 2----Edge Spectacular Bid Secretariat didn't race in a single, not one, graded race as a two year old. 8 wins in 9 starts, most impressively, but not nearly against the caliber of horses that Bid faced at 2. Bid- 7 wins in 9 starts. Mind you this included 3 Grade 1s, 1 Grade 2, and 1 Grade 3. Let's add in a dash of two track records(as a two year old) at distances of 5 1/2 and 8 1/2 furlongs. Incredibly versatile there was no distance he couldn't win at. As a two year old in September he ran 7 furlongs in 1:20 and 4! Ridiculous. At 3----Edge Secretariat Secretariat 9 wins out of 12 starts. Gaudy speed numbers in the Triple Crown races. Lost the Wood, lost the Whitney and lost the Gold Cup to horses he should've beaten. Mind you every horse has an off day. So be it. His Belmont is probably the best single race ever run. I can go with that, except that I have a problem for how it is remembered. The time and the amount he's won by is often talked about. The horses he faced simply stopped. Not one ran on at all. If you want to go by times, let's take a Point Given time of 2:26 and change and he finishes 10 lengths behind Secretariat. Does the performance look quite so dazzling then? Of course not. Graded stakes look: Sec. 4 Grade 1s 2 Grade 2s, 1 Grade 3. Spectac- 10 wins in 12 starts. Two track records vs. 3 for Sec that year, understood Sec's were also in bigger spots. Everyone knows the tack story by now, so a Triple Crown denomination is whatever you want it to be. Brillant speed, rating ability and his loss to Affirmed looks a bit better than a loss to Onion, no? Grade 1s 6 wins, Grade 2 1 win, Grade 3 1 win. I can go with Sec getting the slight nod as a 3 yr old but the idea that there can't even be a debate is ridiculous. At 4- Edge, oh wait, there was no 4 for Secretariat, is that his fault, of course not, but doing things as an older horse matters to me if you want to be considered the best horse of all-time. I'd venture to guess no horse in memory has a better 4 yr old season than Spectacular Bid. But lets look at the numbers. Give me another horse that gets a track record at 7 furlongs and then 10 furlongs at the same track, at the same meet. By the way the 1:57 clocking is I believe still standing to this day at Santa Anita, actually is the fastest at any track in history I believe. Mind you that 1:57 was "in hand." I would hate to see if they let him run. How about 1:45 at Hollywood, and 1:46 at Arlington. Secretariat never got the chance to go out west, maybe he would've wiped the floor with them, maybe he wouldn't, the consistency of the tracks is surely different....What happens if they meet, who the hell knows. I would say that Spec speed would've been a definite advantage over a come from behind type. But we'll never know. Bid- Champion 2 year old, 3 year old, 4 yr old horse of the year----consistently the best horse of his generation each year he raced. 9 races, 9 wins. 5 Grade 1s, 3 Grade 2s, 1 Grade 3. Lifetimes: Sec.- 21 starts 16 wins, 3 seconds, 1 3rd. Bid - 30 starts 26 wins, 2 seconds, 1 3rd. Now comparisons like this are inherently difficult to make and before I did the research the last few years, I too drank the Sec. Kool Aid that you would go to hell if you doubted Sec was the greatest horse ever. I guess it matter how you judge individual performances vs. an entire career. The career isn't that close to me, Bid's was far more complete,(save that Sec.'s turf starts which Bid never did) Again, racing as an older horse matters to me. But let's be clear Bold B and the other haters, you can question whether you agree with my opinion and I'd guess 90% of people don't agree with me on here which is fine. But don't question that I don't know my sh.it again! Randall 
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#2
10-09-2006, 08:11 PM
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I've researched it myself, and always felt the same way about the Bid.
I don't care what flak I take, he was the best horse who ever looked through a bridle, just like his trainer said.
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#3
10-09-2006, 08:12 PM
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One other thing, his 1:57 was 20 lengths better than the "wonderhorse" everyone is so hyped up about. Bernadini couldn't have gotten Spectacular Bid into a sweat, he would have disposed of him like a dirty diaper.
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#4
10-09-2006, 08:13 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:13 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:15 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:17 PM
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#8
10-09-2006, 08:18 PM
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1:57, even if run DOWNHILL on concrete is damn fast. How many lengths do you figure ole Bid woulda beat a horse like Wanderin Boy by?
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#9
10-09-2006, 08:19 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:19 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:19 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:19 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:20 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:21 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:21 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:22 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:22 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:23 PM
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10-09-2006, 08:23 PM
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#20
10-09-2006, 08:23 PM
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