Paris wtf

[Danzig]

Get to the gym and the news is on, shootings, explosions, hostages. Damn


http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/french-po...xplosion-paris

[Easy Goer Otis]

My daughter is going to University in Paris. Fortunately, she was on break and took a road trip to Berlin yesterday. Not sure I want her to go back there. There will be a severe backlash by the nationalists. Things are going to get very ugly in the coming days.

O

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Easy Goer Otis

My daughter is going to University in Paris. Fortunately, she was on break and took a road trip to Berlin yesterday. Not sure I want her to go back there. There will be a severe backlash by the nationalists. Things are going to get very ugly in the coming days.

O

oh, wow...glad to hear she wasn't nearby. just a horrible thing to have happen. I will never, ever understand that process that drives people to do such things.

a few years back, my oldest was going thru a rough patch. one long discussion I had with him....I told him, what you're going thru now is a result of choices you have made. there are always consequences when you decide a path to take.

what have we, as a country, done? choices made by past administrations, and present, has the middle east where it is now...the upheaval, the violence, the terrorists, isis, the refufees. this is our fault.
now, it may have happened there anyway, when one considers the history of that region, especially during and since ww1, and then ww2, the end of empires in the first ww, the drawing of boundaries, the giving of land that wasn't really a euro powers place to give. but this recent stuff-we have to own this. and we, and the other nations so disposed, have to fix this. it won't go away on its own.
the question is, how?
the un? the arab league? a coalition? that ought to be interesting to try to get together, since nations over there might look at religious divisions as a larger issue than terrorism. sunni, Shiite, isis, al Qaeda...it's a nightmare.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Danzig

oh, wow...glad to hear she wasn't nearby. just a horrible thing to have happen. I will never, ever understand that process that drives people to do such things.

a few years back, my oldest was going thru a rough patch. one long discussion I had with him....I told him, what you're going thru now is a result of choices you have made. there are always consequences when you decide a path to take.

what have we, as a country, done? choices made by past administrations, and present, has the middle east where it is now...the upheaval, the violence, the terrorists, isis, the refufees. this is our fault.
now, it may have happened there anyway, when one considers the history of that region, especially during and since ww1, and then ww2, the end of empires in the first ww, the drawing of boundaries, the giving of land that wasn't really a euro powers place to give. but this recent stuff-we have to own this. and we, and the other nations so disposed, have to fix this. it won't go away on its own.
the question is, how?
the un? the arab league? a coalition? that ought to be interesting to try to get together, since nations over there might look at religious divisions as a larger issue than terrorism. sunni, Shiite, isis, al Qaeda...it's a nightmare.

Wow!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Wow!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...sis-syria-iraq

A bit of background, although it only goes back a few years, when really, the West has been messing with the Middle East for decades and decades.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Wow!

yep, wow.
who'd have thought we'd come to such a pretty pass...but it's time to own what we've contributed, and then figure out what to do about it.
now, I'm sure you didn't mean wow as in you agree, or that it just hit you...I know you mean this as 'how dare I?'. but yes, I dare, because it's true.
who is isis? who constititutes their leadership? why is Syria in upheaval, or Iraq? who created the chaos over there in the years since we went over there to remove saddam, while ignoring why we didn't remove him in gulf 91, because we knew them that it would cause just what the hell we have now.
you go back and look over the history of ww1, the fall of the ottomans, the allies in the middle east and how they got treated after by euros, ww2, borders drawn by people from Europe, Russia vs afganistan and what did (Osama bin laden said we'll let the u.s. help us get rid of the soviets, and then we'll get rid of the us), we supported Iraq vs iran, because whoever the soviets were against, we would support...while ignoring just who it was we supported!
so, you go study all that, and then you come back and tell me how I'm wrong in placing blame where it belongs.
did we actually arm the terrorists and get them to attack? no. but we sure all hell have contributed substantially to all that is going on over there, and all the consequences that come from our crap foreign policy decisions over the decades.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...sis-syria-iraq

A bit of background, although it only goes back a few years, when really, the West has been messing with the Middle East for decades and decades.

hell of a read, isn't it?

and then there's

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...-isis-fighters

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yep, wow.
who'd have thought we'd come to such a pretty pass...but it's time to own what we've contributed, and then figure out what to do about it.
now, I'm sure you didn't mean wow as in you agree, or that it just hit you...I know you mean this as 'how dare I?'. but yes, I dare, because it's true.
who is isis? who constititutes their leadership? why is Syria in upheaval, or Iraq? who created the chaos over there in the years since we went over there to remove saddam, while ignoring why we didn't remove him in gulf 91, because we knew them that it would cause just what the hell we have now.
you go back and look over the history of ww1, the fall of the ottomans, the allies in the middle east and how they got treated after by euros, ww2, borders drawn by people from Europe, Russia vs afganistan and what did (Osama bin laden said we'll let the u.s. help us get rid of the soviets, and then we'll get rid of the us), we supported Iraq vs iran, because whoever the soviets were against, we would support...while ignoring just who it was we supported!
so, you go study all that, and then you come back and tell me how I'm wrong in placing blame where it belongs.
did we actually arm the terrorists and get them to attack? no. but we sure all hell have contributed substantially to all that is going on over there, and all the consequences that come from our crap foreign policy decisions over the decades.

you sound like my dear friend Nick Kling now, there was a handicapper!

[Danzig]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate..._of_paris.html


So, for about one hundred years now, the west has dictated to the middle East. And we are where exactly??
So...keep doing the same thing, while expecting a different result. There is a word for that. And it isn't 'intelligent'.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate..._of_paris.html


So, for about one hundred years now, the west has dictated to the middle East. And we are where exactly??
So...keep doing the same thing, while expecting a different result. There is a word for that. And it isn't 'intelligent'.

Well, I guess we're ......... I guess America isn't the GREATEST country in the world. Sad that the "left" believes this

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Well, I guess we're ......... I guess America isn't the GREATEST country in the world. Sad that the "left" believes this

I'm not sure how you come to such a conclusion based on world powers treatment of that region if the world. Seems rather simplistic to say that. With us or against us type logic?
However, I would direct you to the video someone posted a few weeks back, with jeff Daniels talking about that very subject.
This place has its good points, but there is certainly room for improvement.

[GenuineRisk]

"They (Conservatives) don't get it. We (Liberals) love America just as much as they do. But in a different way. You see, they love America the way a four-year-old loves her mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a four-year-old everything mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes mommy is bad. Grown-up love means understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad, and helping your loved one grow. Love takes attention and work and is the best thing in the world. That's why we liberals want America to do the right thing. We know American is the hope of the world, and we love it and want it to do well." - Al Franken

[Danzig]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b08cda34898552

now....i may not be as smart as ol donald...but would it not be better to have them stay open, so one can see who goes there? how would it be better to close them, and have those people go goodness knows where to meet, etc? wouldn't that make radicalized muslims harder to keep track of?

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Well, I guess we're ......... I guess America isn't the GREATEST country in the world. Sad that the "left" believes this

Hardly surprising that Seumas Milne would be the source for the OP-ED referenced above. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's new "Executive Director of Strategy and Communications" has never let facts get in the way of his political beliefs. He is a communist, Marxist, Stalinist sympathizer. And he has never met an anti-capitalist he couldn’t love.

“For all its brutalities and failures, communism in the Soviet Union, eastern Europe and elsewhere delivered rapid industrialisation, mass education, job security and huge advances in social and gender equality. It encompassed genuine idealism and commitment, captured even by critical films and books of the post-Stalin era such as Wajda's Man of Marble and Rybakov's Children of the Arbat. Its existence helped to drive up welfare standards in the west, boosted the anticolonial movement and provided a powerful counterweight to western global domination.”

And of its victims: You have to break a few million eggs to make an omelet, right?

He lamented the conviction in British court of Anis Abid Sardar who built IEDs in Iraq. He blames the west for the murder of Boris Nemtsov in Russia, taking his cues straight from Putin. He justified Russia's involvement in Ukraine. That’s just this year. Go back and read/listen to more of his previous work, and you’ll get where he is coming from, and why he is useful to American apologists.

[Danzig]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/politi...ack/index.html

completely disagree. nothing should be off the table. nothing. the march thru syria should rival shermans march to atlanta and the sea.

[OldDog]

Danzig, you hawk, you!

[OldDog]

French media outlet changes its tune
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegr...sy_vs_reality/

"Obama has said that the administration is moving forward with its plan to thoroughly vet and admit as many as 10,000 Syrian refugees. All three Democratic presidential candidates have said they would admit Syrians but only after thorough background checks."
http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/...16-6634189.php

Ben Rhodes:
"With respect to refugees, we have the most extensive security vetting that we have ever had to deal with Syrian refugees coming into the United States that involves not just the Department of Homeland Security and the State Department, but also our intelligence community, the National Counterterrorism Center, so that anybody who comes to the United States, we are carefully vetting against all of our information.

We have very extensive screening procedures for all Syrian refugees who come to the United States. There is a very careful vetting process that including our terrorism community, our Department of Homeland Security."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDqJ-PQS7xw

FBI Director Robert Comey testified before the House Judiciary Committee that vetting Syrian refugees will be “challenging” when asked by Rep. Louie Gohmert about the quality of intelligence and information that exists on Syrians.

Gohmert: Well, without a good fingerprint database, without good identification, how can you be sure that anyone is who they say they are if they don’t have fingerprints to go against?

Comey: The only thing we can query is information that we have. So, if we have no information on someone, they’ve never crossed our radar screen, they’ve never been a ripple in the pond, there will be no record of them there and so it will be challenging.

FBI Assistant Director Michael Steinbach to the House Homeland Security Committee about the quality of information available on anyone coming out of Syria:

"The concern in Syria is that we don’t have systems in places on the ground to collect information to vet… You’re talking about a country that is a failed state, that does not have any infrastructure, so to speak. So all of the dataset, the police, the intel services that normally you would go to to seek information doesn’t exist."


If they do come, they should all go to sanctuary cities.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by OldDog

French media outlet changes its tune
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegr...sy_vs_reality/

"Obama has said that the administration is moving forward with its plan to thoroughly vet and admit as many as 10,000 Syrian refugees. All three Democratic presidential candidates have said they would admit Syrians but only after thorough background checks."
http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/...16-6634189.php

Ben Rhodes:
"With respect to refugees, we have the most extensive security vetting that we have ever had to deal with Syrian refugees coming into the United States that involves not just the Department of Homeland Security and the State Department, but also our intelligence community, the National Counterterrorism Center, so that anybody who comes to the United States, we are carefully vetting against all of our information.

We have very extensive screening procedures for all Syrian refugees who come to the United States. There is a very careful vetting process that including our terrorism community, our Department of Homeland Security."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDqJ-PQS7xw

FBI Director Robert Comey testified before the House Judiciary Committee that vetting Syrian refugees will be “challenging” when asked by Rep. Louie Gohmert about the quality of intelligence and information that exists on Syrians.

Gohmert: Well, without a good fingerprint database, without good identification, how can you be sure that anyone is who they say they are if they don’t have fingerprints to go against?

Comey: The only thing we can query is information that we have. So, if we have no information on someone, they’ve never crossed our radar screen, they’ve never been a ripple in the pond, there will be no record of them there and so it will be challenging.

FBI Assistant Director Michael Steinbach to the House Homeland Security Committee about the quality of information available on anyone coming out of Syria:

"The concern in Syria is that we don’t have systems in places on the ground to collect information to vet… You’re talking about a country that is a failed state, that does not have any infrastructure, so to speak. So all of the dataset, the police, the intel services that normally you would go to to seek information doesn’t exist."


If they do come, they should all go to sanctuary cities.

Interestingly enough, the parts you put in bold also apply to the illegal immigrant situation. You see, if we don't have a wall, or fence, or something enforced as a border, then public officials don't have to worry about actually reporting who is here since they won't know. Isn't that convenient?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by OldDog

Danzig, you hawk, you!

since syria went down the crapper, and people were saying 'we gotta do something', i would ask 'whose side do we go in on?'.
but this has gone far beyond that. the refugee crisis has only made it that much more of an issue....the best way to handle a refugee crisis, is to fix the stuff causing the crisis. over 6 million now looking for a place to live in peace.
i don't think i'll ever forget the picture of the poor dead syrian boy on the beach, drowned. it's the stuff of nightmares.
at any rate...again, this am, someone was on the radio talking about france, their response, bombing isis, and he asked 'what about civilians?'
well, civilians are dying elsewhere now, too. in france, thousands of miles away.
enough already. enough.
isis isn't going away. so, we have to make it go away.
we caused this issue, now we have to fix it.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

since syria went down the crapper, and people were saying 'we gotta do something', i would ask 'whose side do we go in on?'.
but this has gone far beyond that. the refugee crisis has only made it that much more of an issue....the best way to handle a refugee crisis, is to fix the stuff causing the crisis. over 6 million now looking for a place to live in peace.
i don't think i'll ever forget the picture of the poor dead syrian boy on the beach, drowned. it's the stuff of nightmares.
at any rate...again, this am, someone was on the radio talking about france, their response, bombing isis, and he asked 'what about civilians?'
well, civilians are dying elsewhere now, too. in france, thousands of miles away.
enough already. enough.
isis isn't going away. so, we have to make it go away.
we caused this issue, now we have to fix it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q