Weekend Stakes Beyers

[Kasept]

GP Florida Derby (G1) : Tiz the Law 96 (Constitution) B. Tagg/M. Franco
GP Pan American S (G2): Bemma's Boy 98 (Into Mischief) M. Maker/F. Geroux
GP Gulfstream Oaks (G2): Swiss Skydiver 90 (Daredevil) K. McPeek/P. Lopez
GP Appleton S (G3): Social Paranoia 100 (Street Boss) T. Pletcher/F. Geroux
GP Sand Springs S: La Signare-FR 88 (Siyouni-FR) B. Walsh/T. Gaffalione
GP Cutler Bay S: Decorated Invader 88 (Declaration of War) C. Clement/J. Rosario
GP Hal's Hope S (G3): Identifier 93 (Creative Cause) O. Gonzalez/M. Meneses
GP Orchid S. (G3): Mean Mary 97 (Scat Daddy) H. Motion/L. Saez
GP Sanibel Island S: Highland Glory 81 (Sky Mesa) B. Tagg/P. Lopez
GP Sir Shackleton S: Vekoma 102 (Candy Ride-ARG) G. Weaver/M. Franco

OP Nodouble Breeders' S: K J's Nobility 83 (Primary Suspect) C. Borel/C. Borel

[freddymo]

Maker really is a miracle worker with these claimers that he turns into stakes winners. Maybe I am naive, but I think he isn't cheating I guess he just knows what type of horse to look for that can run a distance of ground on turf

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Maker really is a miracle worker with these claimers that he turns into stakes winners. Maybe I am naive, but I think he isn't cheating I guess he just knows what type of horse to look for that can run a distance of ground on turf

Naive? LOL. Game needs to PURGE trainers that cheat and owners that Enable it while hiding behind the wall of plausible deniability. I am sure you agree with me 100%

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by jms62

Naive? LOL. Game needs to PURGE trainers that cheat and owners that Enable it while hiding behind the wall of plausible deniability. I am sure you agree with me 100%

Here is my problem suggesting he is a cheat, he only does this with horses that run long on turf, if this was some type of miracle medication it would be effective throughout his barn.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Here is my problem suggesting he is a cheat, he only does this with horses that run long on turf, if this was some type of miracle medication it would be effective throughout his barn.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Here is my problem suggesting he is a cheat, he only does this with horses that run long on turf, if this was some type of miracle medication it would be effective throughout his barn.

So you are suggesting that if something works on endurance runners it also has to work on sprinters? You aren’t lying about a miracle medication but it is simply moving the goal posts to give you Plausible Deniability.Thanks for showing us all how an owner thinks and works. Stay safe.

[Dahoss]

I’m basically suspicious of anyone that is able to move up a lo of their runners. I feel like Maker fits in that category.

People that I respect think he’s clean, so there’s that. But, he’s either really good at finding horses like this, or....

It’s just not that easy to turn a 30k claimer into a grade 2 winner 10 months later

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by jms62

So you are suggesting that if something works on endurance runners it also has to work on sprinters?

And you're suggesting it might only work when going long on grass, but not dirt?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Here is my problem suggesting he is a cheat, he only does this with horses that run long on turf, if this was some type of miracle medication it would be effective throughout his barn.

Didn’t you kind of doubt Servis had an edge too?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

And you're suggesting it might only work when going long on grass, but not dirt?

He moves up dirt runners too.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Didn’t you kind of doubt Servis had an edge too?

And Dutrow until the very end.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Didn’t you kind of doubt Servis had an edge too?

No, I always thought Servis was a raging cheat

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by jms62

And Dutrow until the very end.

Dutrow is a brilliant horseman, an idiot when it came to gambling and paperwork but he was not half the cheat people suspect him of being.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’m basically suspicious of anyone that is able to move up a lo of their runners. I feel like Maker fits in that category.

People that I respect think he’s clean, so there’s that. But, he’s either really good at finding horses like this, or....

It’s just not that easy to turn a 30k claimer into a grade 2 winner 10 months later

I am not saying he isn't cheating because I don't know, it's certainly possible. Why would you cheat with just long-distance turf horses?

[Frost King]

Just remember pigs get slaughtered, just like what has happened to some other trainers.

[NTamm1215]

Mike Maker? He's an 18% trainer over the last 5 years. His stats in almost every category are the same - 18% with a $1.75 or so ROI. He's brutal off the claim - 15%, $1.02 ROI on dirt over last 5 years and not much better on turf (17%, $1.74 ROI).

He won a G3 with Do Share in March of last year, ran him into the ground, and he improved 13 points off the claim by Norm Casse, and has stayed at that level. Maker's barn woefully underachieves on dirt. At the marquee meets where he has a big string (all NYRA, GP, Kee, CD) he is 17% with a $1.27 ROI on dirt over the last five years and 17% with a $1.72 ROI on turf.

If Maker is juicing, it's the worst juice known to mankind.

A horse like Bemma's Boy is a perfect fit for his barn. He was 1-1 on turf prior to being claimed and his first trainer inexplicably kept him on dirt despite his lone turf start having clearly been his best race. He's clearly improved for Maker, but what's to say a horse capable of running a 79 Beyer as a late-season 3YO for a dirt trainer didn't have potential. The turf marathon division is also a s.hit show every year, so a newcomer improving enough to make noise is hardly surprising. Zulu Alpha was a graded stake caliber horse for Neil Howard. With all due respect to Neil Howard, it's downright shocking he improved coming from that barn.

You want to talk juicers? Comb through Saffie Joseph's stats. Ironically, he claimed a horse off Maker in September, left him off for 4 months and he improved 52 Beyer points! He duplicated that effort and was entered in the Florida Derby but scratched.

Some of those other South Florida guys who've come on the scene in the last few years or so have insane numbers.

[Dahoss]

And he was a 22% trainer in the 5 years prior to that. For the 5 years prior to that he was a 25% trainer.

I know purses are higher now but in the last 5 years his horses made roughly 16 million dollars more than his horses made in the prior 5 years.

He’s clearly got some kind of a gift when it comes to finding horses who excel at going long on turf and he’s very smart about who he claims off of. Morocco yesterday is a good example...but let’s not pretend he doesn’t move horses up and that it’s easy to claim off of him and win.

Those are usually tell tale signs someone has an edge. Maybe his edge is his eye for finding horses that can go long on turf but Servis was deadly with turf sprinters. So...

[goodcopy]

What's wrong with you guys?
Why can't we enforce the rules and testing that exists, develop an industry stander for testing and enforcement?
Identify by numbers a probable cause for spot testing across the horse racing industry?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by goodcopy

What's wrong with you guys?
Why can't we enforce the rules and testing that exists, develop an industry stander for testing and enforcement?
Identify by numbers a probable cause for spot testing across the horse racing industry?

Huh?

[goodcopy]

Are we going to test all "hot trainers" , if so on what basis, reputation or statistics