2/5 (GP): Holy Bull, Swale, Swtst Chant, Fwd Gal, Ktn's Joy (G3's)

[Kasept]

[RolloTomasi]

Good to know we have such astute horsemen that racing offices across the country can carve up the 3yo crop into dedicated sprinters, routers, dirt horses, and turf horses this early in the year; especially with so many major races coming this spring aside from the Kentucky Derby (don't know what they are, but they are there apparently...)

I don't know what FL trainers with a good 3yo did when Hialeah had their 3yo races up and running around the same time, but it used to be a lot more straight forward at Gulfstream.

Hutcheson...Fountain of Youth...Florida Derby...Blue Grass or Wood Memorial.

If you had a late starter, the Swale was on the FL Derby undercard which would segue into either the Gotham/Wood or Jim Beam/Blue Grass. Chief's Crown, Seeking the Gold, Easy Goer, Creme Fraiche, Cherokee Run, and Summer Squall were among those that used the race.

This silly Preview Stakes that originally ran AFTER the FL Derby is now a major prep called the Holy Bull that destroyed the sanity of starting off the season in an extended sprint (the Hutcheson). Ironically, Holy Bull ran in the Hutcheson not the Preview in 1994. The Preview was won that year by Go For Gin, one of 3 Derby winners that have come from the race (also ran Funny Cide and the ill-fated Barbaro are the other 2). Aside from those, none of whom had consistently productive careers afterwards, the race has been a joke in terms of highlighting colts that would go on to great careers. Frosted tossed in 1 or 2 monster efforts amid a bunch of disappointing races; Tiz the Law ran through a solid streak of races before petering out with a profound whimper.

Meanwhile, the Hutcheson got Forego, Spectacular Bid, Swale, Holy Bull, Unbridled's Song, Fly So Free, Coronado's Quest, Creme Fraiche, Forty Niner, Gone West, Housebuster, You and I, Gold Fever, Cat Thief, and More Than Ready before becoming an unimportant "sprinters only" affair.

[blackthroatedwind]

I still can't believe Unbridled Song lost the Hutcheson...though Appealing Skier was pretty good.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I still can't believe Unbridled Song lost the Hutcheson...though Appealing Skier was pretty good.

Not sure how accurate the charts are but looks like Appealing Skier was first time lasix in the Hutcheson and Built for Pleasure was starting for the second time on lasix when he upset US in the Fountain of Youth at over 140-1 (he had won FTL the start before).

The only time US ran on lasix was his final start in the Olympic where he got revenge on Appealing Skier.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Not sure how accurate the charts are but looks like Appealing Skier was first time lasix in the Hutcheson and Built for Pleasure was starting for the second time on lasix when he upset US in the Fountain of Youth at over 140-1 (he had won FTL the start before).

The only time US ran on lasix was his final start in the Olympic where he got revenge on Appealing Skier.

I was there for all of them.

They were foolishly rating Unbridled Song until the Florida Derby. After he lost those races, I asked a trainer who shall remain nameless if he had any idea why US wasn't winning, and he said "I wouldn't tell another trainer how to train his horses, but Wayne Lukas won a lot of big races sending speed horses to the lead."

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Good to know we have such astute horsemen that racing offices across the country can carve up the 3yo crop into dedicated sprinters, routers, dirt horses, and turf horses this early in the year; especially with so many major races coming this spring aside from the Kentucky Derby (don't know what they are, but they are there apparently...)

I don't know what FL trainers with a good 3yo did when Hialeah had their 3yo races up and running around the same time, but it used to be a lot more straight forward at Gulfstream.

Hutcheson...Fountain of Youth...Florida Derby...Blue Grass or Wood Memorial.

If you had a late starter, the Swale was on the FL Derby undercard which would segue into either the Gotham/Wood or Jim Beam/Blue Grass. Chief's Crown, Seeking the Gold, Easy Goer, Creme Fraiche, Cherokee Run, and Summer Squall were among those that used the race.

This silly Preview Stakes that originally ran AFTER the FL Derby is now a major prep called the Holy Bull that destroyed the sanity of starting off the season in an extended sprint (the Hutcheson). Ironically, Holy Bull ran in the Hutcheson not the Preview in 1994. The Preview was won that year by Go For Gin, one of 3 Derby winners that have come from the race (also ran Funny Cide and the ill-fated Barbaro are the other 2). Aside from those, none of whom had consistently productive careers afterwards, the race has been a joke in terms of highlighting colts that would go on to great careers. Frosted tossed in 1 or 2 monster efforts amid a bunch of disappointing races; Tiz the Law ran through a solid streak of races before petering out with a profound whimper.

Meanwhile, the Hutcheson got Forego, Spectacular Bid, Swale, Holy Bull, Unbridled's Song, Fly So Free, Coronado's Quest, Creme Fraiche, Forty Niner, Gone West, Housebuster, You and I, Gold Fever, Cat Thief, and More Than Ready before becoming an unimportant "sprinters only" affair.

Back in the day

Hutch
Fountain of youth
Flamingo
Florida derby

The Florida Four

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by FATPIANO

Back in the day

Hutch
Fountain of youth
Flamingo
Florida derby

The Florida Four

Thanks, I know the Flamingo was an important race but never really figured out how it fit into the calendar (plus it had its own preps like the Bahamas and Everglades).

A little bit before my time.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Thanks, I know the Flamingo was an important race but never really figured out how it fit into the calendar (plus it had its own preps like the Bahamas and Everglades).

A little bit before my time.

When horses ran more often they won them both, and then another Derby prep. Different time. The 1984 Flamingo is a great race. Devil's Bag's first defeat, behind Time for a Change and Dr. Carter, both of whom got hurt before the Derby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKP1nBlgAbc

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

When horses ran more often they won them both, and then another Derby prep. Different time. The 1984 Flamingo is a great race. Devil's Bag's first defeat, behind Time for a Change and Dr. Carter, both of whom got hurt before the Derby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKP1nBlgAbc

Nice; 1:47 flat. Dr. Carter bobbled a bit at the break, then got left in the dust when he failed to get through on the inside with that early move and still came with a run.

All 3 horses came into the race off recent wins, all off less than 3 weeks rest (less than 2 weeks for both Devil's Bag and Dr. Carter).

Meanwhile, waiting in the wings is Swale, who would race 3 times in the span of 24 days (Hutcheson, FOY, FL Derby), winning 2 out of the 3 and ultimately the KY Derby.

Champion filly Althea running all over the place and making her FIFTH start against colts in the Kentucky Derby (won 3 of the previous 4).

Fast forward to the present, and we have trainers who can only say that they will have "something" for the Rebel; an unbeaten 2yo champ that isn't even breezing at a major racetrack that may or may not end up with the same trainer; and Santa Anita about to run its 3rd "Derby prep" in 5 weeks none of which have drawn more than 5 horses, none of whom have run in any of the other 2 preps (which are nonsensically run in order at 8f, 7f, and 8.5f).

At least the El Camino Real Derby is still producing Preakness winners...

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Nice; 1:47 flat. Dr. Carter bobbled a bit at the break, then got left in the dust when he failed to get through on the inside with that early move and still came with a run.

All 3 horses came into the race off recent wins, all off less than 3 weeks rest (less than 2 weeks for both Devil's Bag and Dr. Carter).

Meanwhile, waiting in the wings is Swale, who would race 3 times in the span of 24 days (Hutcheson, FOY, FL Derby), winning 2 out of the 3 and ultimately the KY Derby.

Champion filly Althea running all over the place and making her FIFTH start against colts in the Kentucky Derby (won 3 of the previous 4).

Fast forward to the present, and we have trainers who can only say that they will have "something" for the Rebel; an unbeaten 2yo champ that isn't even breezing at a major racetrack that may or may not end up with the same trainer; and Santa Anita about to run its 3rd "Derby prep" in 5 weeks none of which have drawn more than 5 horses, none of whom have run in any of the other 2 preps (which are nonsensically run in order at 8f, 7f, and 8.5f).

At least the El Camino Real Derby is still producing Preakness winners...

Who could ever forget the highly touted Event Of The Year

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Conrad

Who could ever forget the highly touted Event Of The Year

Woulda been the 'real' HOY in 1998 if he had just won the Malibu...