Cigar's maiden win...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owOAX2jiy2c

Basically, he breaks very slow and is rushed up into a pace battle through fast fractions - nicely wins that battle - and stays on to score a victory with a Beyer figure almost identical to what fellow 3yo Prairie Bayou got for winning the Preakness the following week.

He ran his next 11 races on the turf - where he managed just one win - an N1X alw race.

Really clever management if you ask me.

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owOAX2jiy2c

Basically, he breaks very slow and is rushed up into a pace battle through fast fractions - nicely wins that battle - and stays on to score a victory with a Beyer figure almost identical to what fellow 3yo Prairie Bayou got for winning the Preakness the following week.

He ran his next 11 races on the turf - where he managed just one win - an N1X alw race.

Really clever management if you ask me.

Didn't his breeding scream turf? And even Mott had little success before trying dirt again.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Cigar had a turf sire.

His dam Solar Slew sold for over 500K at the California March 2yo in training sale (what is now called Barretts March) - paying over a half a million at a 2yo sale for a filly back at that time (1984) was almost entirely unheard of.

Solar Slew was a total bust on the track though - going 7-0-1-1 and making less than 6K in earnings.

Cigar's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th dam were all bred and raced in South America. All the turf breeding was from the sire.

I wonder how many other horses run dirt Beyers in the 90's in career start #2 inspite of a troubled trip - and get put on the turf for there next 11 starts inspite of little success?

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owOAX2jiy2c

Basically, he breaks very slow and is rushed up into a pace battle through fast fractions - nicely wins that battle - and stays on to score a victory with a Beyer figure almost identical to what fellow 3yo Prairie Bayou got for winning the Preakness the following week.

He ran his next 11 races on the turf - where he managed just one win - an N1X alw race.

Really clever management if you ask me.

my uncle dave... who was a losser back then, he has since got his life together, but back then was big into drugs and other things....... but anyway my uncle dave... followed cigar... from track to track....every race during the win streak, except dubai.... he was obsessed with the horse, i was only a child back then, but he tells stories off having $600 to win on him at odds of like 2-5, its really very funny

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Cigar had a turf sire.

His dam Solar Slew sold for over 500K at the California March 2yo in training sale (what is now called Barretts March) - paying over a half a million at a 2yo sale for a filly back at that time (1984) was almost entirely unheard of.

Solar Slew was a total bust on the track though - going 7-0-1-1 and making less than 6K in earnings.

Cigar's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th dam were all bred and raced in South America. All the turf breeding was from the sire.

I wonder how many other horses run dirt Beyers in the 90's in career start #2 inspite of a troubled trip - and get put on the turf for there next 11 starts inspite of little success?

Okay. I don't have his lifetime PPs in front of me, but didn't Mott run him on the grass three or four times before trying dirt again? I guess whatever prompted Hassinger to keep trying the turf also persuaded Mott to do the same, at least initially. If even Mott didn't pick up on this right away, it seems a bit harsh to say he was mismanaged.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll

I guess whatever prompted Hassinger to keep trying the turf also persuaded Mott to do the same

Stupidity?

Mott ran him four times on the turf after Hassinger, he ran Beyers of 77, 86, 76, and 79 in those four turf races.

Mike Smith rode him three week after his final turf start - he set a 44 3/5th pace and won by 8 - Bailey got on him the following month and he won the NYRA Mile by 7 lengths at 9/1 odds with a 115 Beyer.

Cigar actually won 17 dirt races in a row. The first win and the 2nd win of those 17 straight coming more than 18 months apart.

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Stupidity?

Ouch! You're a man of strong opinions.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

We all do stupid things from time to time.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

We all do stupid things from time to time.

Thought for sure this thread would include pretty colored pictures with boxes drawn in, arrows pointing in 10 different directions.


Clearly the upcoming battle with Hossy has affected your sanity.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Happy?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Happy?

no...that was half hearted

[The Indomitable DrugS]

My bad.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owOAX2jiy2c

Basically, he breaks very slow and is rushed up into a pace battle through fast fractions - nicely wins that battle - and stays on to score a victory with a Beyer figure almost identical to what fellow 3yo Prairie Bayou got for winning the Preakness the following week.

He ran his next 11 races on the turf - where he managed just one win - an N1X alw race.

Really clever management if you ask me.

a serious question.

was there a reason ever given for running all those races on turf?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by GPK

a serious question.

was there a reason ever given for running all those races on turf?

At that time of year in CA (early summer), the focus for the 3yo division switches to the turf. Aside from the Swaps Stakes in July, which his connections were unlikely to point for off a 6f maiden win, the next graded stakes on dirt for 3yos in CA was the Laz Barrera in late November. Being a highly touted horse prior to his career debut and given his turf pedigree, it would seem possible that his connections thought that races like the Del Mar, Oak Tree, and Hollywood Derbies were the most appropriate targets at that stage of his career, particularly after breaking his first condition on the turf.

What DrugS fails to add to his 11-race losing streak on turf was that the horse placed in multiple graded stakes on grass (at least during his 3yo year). Cigar also had knee surgery at the end of the year at 3, so its possible he was put on turf for soundness issues as well.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

What DrugS fails to add to his 11-race losing streak on turf was that the horse placed in multiple graded stakes on grass (at least during his 3yo year). Cigar also had knee surgery at the end of the year at 3, so its possible he was put on turf for soundness issues as well.

He was 2nd by 2 length in a Grade 3 to Eastern Memories - and was 3rd at Bay Meadows in a Grade 3 behind Siebe after blowing a 4 length stretch lead going 8.5 furlongs. He made 82K in his 11 career turf starts. Siebe and Eastern Memories stunk.

You have to admit Rollo, if a 3yo colt ran a 93 Beyer with a tough trip the week before the Preakness is won with a 96 Beyer - there is 0 chance he would spend his next 11 starts running blah on the turf.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He was 2nd by 2 length in a Grade 3 to Eastern Memories - and was 3rd at Bay Meadows in a Grade 3 behind Siebe after blowing a 4 length stretch lead going 8.5 furlongs. He made 82K in his 11 career turf starts. Siebe and Eastern Memories stunk.

You have to admit Rollo, if a 3yo colt ran a 93 Beyer with a tough trip the week before the Preakness is won with a 96 Beyer - there is 0 chance he would spend his next 11 starts running blah on the turf.

Well, to further emphasize the total derth (sp?) of 3yo dirt racing in CA during the time frame involved, Paulson, who was stacked with good 3yos at the time (Corby with Sadler, Diazo with Shoemaker, and Dowty with Jones--though they were all on the bench by summer), ran Diazo in his comeback off the a 5th in the Kentucky Derby on the grass (the restricted Relaunch at Del Mar). Diazo had to ship to get back on the main track (Pegasus, JCGC) before returning home for the BC Classic.

Maybe Cigar should have been shipped East sooner, but nonetheless, really most of the blame for poor management should fall on Mott's shoulders, not Hassinger's (who had to make do with what races were available), as his barn was so big at the time (100+ horses) that its not out of the realm of possibility that Cigar simply got "lost in the shuffle". His decent efforts in CA were probably enough to continue on the surface back East and IIRC he did place in allowance races behind MGSWs like Unaccounted For (whom he ultimately browbeat in Grade 1s on dirt) and possibly Diplomatic Jet (or some other Fred Hooper turfer--Roman Envoy?).

[AeWingnut]

Maybe it was because of qtr cracks. After all that was a problem towards the end.

I am a fan of Cigar. He was a super star. He couldn't help it if everyone was ducking him. It's not like he was running in Optional Claimers

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

I am a fan of Cigar. He was a super star. He couldn't help it if everyone was ducking him. It's not like he was running in Optional Claimers

Yeah, it was Mott's fault everyone was ducking him.

He was also training Geri, Wekiva Springs, and Peaks And Valleys, all Grade 1 winning older horses, at the time Cigar was on his win streak.

[magic_idol]

Thanks for the Vid.
Had a little chuckle at the barrier attendant loading the horse who when the horse wouldn't go into the stall decided to kick dirt at it .

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Maybe Cigar should have been shipped East sooner, but nonetheless, really most of the blame for poor management should fall on Mott's shoulders, not Hassinger's.

I don't know man.

Tiznow was 6th in his debut and if I recall broke his maiden with a fairly good figure in May of his 3yo season out West.

I know he wasn't by a turf sire - and I know Robbins wasn't loaded - but imagine how silly it would have been had they stuck him on the turf for 11 races and 18 months with very moderate success.