Round Pond/Edgar Prado

[GPK]

can someone please explain to me what in the world he was doing up on that pace?? I am still scratching my head at that one....worst ride of the day...hands down.

[blackthroatedwind]

It was surprising and I guess Teammate getting left had a lot to do with that happening.

Did it matter?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It was surprising and I guess Teammate getting left had a lot to do with that happening.

Did it matter?

Andy....we can't say for sure if she would have beaten Fleet Indian....but I at least wanted a chance....and I knew between 1/2 and 3/4 that I had no shot. The race could not have been gift wrapped for FI anymore than that today. IMO....if Prado stays back with FI behind the dueling speed, RP could have at least given her a run. Instead...as I said...I knew between the 1/2 mile and 3/4 mile that I had no shot.

[blackthroatedwind]

I hear ya, and I used her as well, but it's hard to believe a different ride would have made up the significant ground between her and the first two finishers.

I guess we'll never know and it certainly wasn't a stellar ride. You can always bet her back in the BC where she will be a big price. I'll be betting Pine Island....and using Balletto for second because she aint passin' nobody.

[Samarta]

Kev,

Sorry I'm a little late with this one, still recovering from being on call and having to work like 500 hours the last couple of days....My take on it is this...The connections of RP are to blame....this is twice now in the new trainer era that she has gotten a horrible ride....I don't know if she had enough to win, but she certainly had no business up on the lead...If you watch the replays of the 6 wins she had with Elliot up with the exception of the Azeri where it was basically a match race between she and Happy Ticket, she came from several lengths off the pace to win...Last year in the Acorn he held perfectly in 4th place all the way around and didn't make a move til the final furlong and won by a length. Bravo gave her a horrible ride in the Molly Pritchard...had to check her hard twice and she lost by a head and Saturday, watching the race I was on the phone with someone and I don't even know if they were at the 1/2 when I said she's done....Why take Elliot off of her??? I heard today that the shoes are too blame and they have been changed and she is full of herself again....yeah well, let's see how full of herself she is when she is up on the lead for the first 3/4's of the Distaff....it's a shame.....

[Gander]

She wasnt running 1st or 2nd in this race. Thats just my opinion but I saw the race live and seen about 5 replays of it. Not a good ride, but I really dont think it cost her anymore than 3rd place.
Like BTW said, bet her back in the BC.

[Kasept]

I asked Matz about Round Pond today on ATRAB and he said that he lost a week or so of training coming into the Beldame with a foot bruise.. And in his opinion, it was significant time lost based on how she ran...

He said he thinks he can make up those 7 beaten lengths between now and the Distaff. She will be third off the layoff Nov. 4, and 24 days is a fair amount of time for a guy like Matz to put in whatever condition he needs. She's a very interesting alternative to the obvious ones come Distaff with the explosive turn of foot of which she's capable..

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I asked Matz about Round Pond today on ATRAB and he said that he lost a week or so of training coming into the Beldame with a foot bruise.. And in his opinion, it was significant time lost based on how she ran...

He said he thinks he can make up those 7 beaten lengths between now and the Distaff. She will be third off the layoff Nov. 4, and 24 days is a fair amount of time for a guy like Matz to put in whatever condition he needs. She's a very interesting alternative to the obvious ones come Distaff with the explosive turn of foot of which she's capable..

Thanks Stevo....she could be a big play at a nice price come Nov. 4

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I asked Matz about Round Pond today on ATRAB and he said that he lost a week or so of training coming into the Beldame with a foot bruise.. And in his opinion, it was significant time lost based on how she ran...

He said he thinks he can make up those 7 beaten lengths between now and the Distaff. She will be third off the layoff Nov. 4, and 24 days is a fair amount of time for a guy like Matz to put in whatever condition he needs. She's a very interesting alternative to the obvious ones come Distaff with the explosive turn of foot of which she's capable..

Don't think it would've been a bad idea to at least mention before the race that she had a bruise and missed time. Too much to ask?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I asked Matz about Round Pond today on ATRAB and he said that he lost a week or so of training coming into the Beldame with a foot bruise.. And in his opinion, it was significant time lost based on how she ran...

He said he thinks he can make up those 7 beaten lengths between now and the Distaff. She will be third off the layoff Nov. 4, and 24 days is a fair amount of time for a guy like Matz to put in whatever condition he needs. She's a very interesting alternative to the obvious ones come Distaff with the explosive turn of foot of which she's capable..

but in all honesty...that still does not explain Edgar's ride on her...unless I am missing something????

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Don't think it would've been a bad idea to at least mention before the race that she had a bruise and missed time. Too much to ask?

A post from Rick Porter on the Rockport Harbor website:

"Round Pond has had problems tying up in the past 10 days. I didn't get it on the web site because I did not want the competition or the media to know. MM thinks that her shoes started to become a problem again and was probably the cause of the tying up. He switched her back to glue ons and she seems much more content. She definitely didn't come into the race as fit as we would have liked her to be. She missed a work and quite a bit of maintenance galloping. She ran a big race considering her last 10 days of sporatic training.
I was out at the barn this morning and she is in rare form. She will go out on the trails of Fair Hill tomorrow and begin her training plan for the Breeders' Cup. We believe the tying up is behind her. If it becomes a problem again, she will not run on the 4th. Right now she is fit coming out of the Beldame and will be training up to the Breeders' Cup with confidence. She is a tough filly and if she does not encounter any additional difficulties, she will be right there. Keep your fingers crossed because if she is 100% fit, they all better have their running shoes on.

Rick"
______________________

My response to this was:

Man, they never stop. This is so typical of them. If u didn't want the media or competition to know before the race, why use it as an excuse after? That's complete and total BS. This is not football or basketball where if an opponent knows that u are suffering from a particular injury, they can focus on trying to attack that area. What difference would it have made if the trainer of another horse had known your horse had tied up? What was the media going to do if they had known before the race? Does this guy really think that u all are so stupid to believe this junk? Take losses like a damn man. Stop with the pathetic excuses AFTER THE FACT.

[KY_Sasquash]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

A post from Rick Porter on the Rockport Harbor website:

"Round Pond has had problems tying up in the past 10 days. I didn't get it on the web site because I did not want the competition or the media to know. MM thinks that her shoes started to become a problem again and was probably the cause of the tying up. He switched her back to glue ons and she seems much more content. She definitely didn't come into the race as fit as we would have liked her to be. She missed a work and quite a bit of maintenance galloping. She ran a big race considering her last 10 days of sporatic training.
I was out at the barn this morning and she is in rare form. She will go out on the trails of Fair Hill tomorrow and begin her training plan for the Breeders' Cup. We believe the tying up is behind her. If it becomes a problem again, she will not run on the 4th. Right now she is fit coming out of the Beldame and will be training up to the Breeders' Cup with confidence. She is a tough filly and if she does not encounter any additional difficulties, she will be right there. Keep your fingers crossed because if she is 100% fit, they all better have their running shoes on.

Rick"
______________________

My response to this was:

Man, they never stop. This is so typical of them. If u didn't want the media or competition to know before the race, why use it as an excuse after? That's complete and total BS. This is not football or basketball where if an opponent knows that u are suffering from a particular injury, they can focus on trying to attack that area. What difference would it have made if the trainer of another horse had known your horse had tied up? What was the media going to do if they had known before the race? Does this guy really think that u all are so stupid to believe this junk? Take losses like a damn man. Stop with the pathetic excuses AFTER THE FACT.

A buddy of mine was up at Fairhill and he told me the same thing on Sunday, so I believe its valid that she tied up. I do agree w/ you that its BS that they wait and let the public know after the race is run (I bet on her, too). Seems to me that if the competition knows this its not going to hurt her b/c they dont have to worry about her as a threat.

[Gander]

Every trainer likes his/her horses. Its nothing new. I bet you if you ask the trainer of Fleet Indian, Balleto, Teammate, Pine Island, and every one else who goes in this BC race, they all think their filly can win. Matz is saying (in different words) what every other trainer is saying.

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I asked Matz about Round Pond today on ATRAB and he said that he lost a week or so of training coming into the Beldame with a foot bruise.. And in his opinion, it was significant time lost based on how she ran...

He said he thinks he can make up those 7 beaten lengths between now and the Distaff. She will be third off the layoff Nov. 4, and 24 days is a fair amount of time for a guy like Matz to put in whatever condition he needs. She's a very interesting alternative to the obvious ones come Distaff with the explosive turn of foot of which she's capable..

With said, I'm sure missing the week of training that close to a Grade 1, had he had his preference, they would have skipped the Beldame and instead pointed towards the Distaff. Because any good horseman in their right mind would not throw their horse into a grade 1 out of shape unless they had pressure from the person writing the checks...jmo

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Samarta

With said, I'm sure missing the week of training that close to a Grade 1, had he had his preference, they would have skipped the Beldame and instead pointed towards the Distaff. Because any good horseman in their right mind would not throw their horse into a grade 1 out of shape unless they had pressure from the person writing the checks...jmo

One race is worth 5 workouts.. And Matz didn't run her "out of shape"... She just wasn't exactly where he would have liked to have her or where he'll have her Cup Day...

Originally Posted by GPK

but in all honesty...that still does not explain Edgar's ride on her...unless I am missing something????

Kev often when this situation occurs a filly can be rank.
Its why I didn't condemn as harshly as others. I watched the replay and it looked to me as if he tried to tap on the brakes and she wouldnt brake. When that happens you have two choices. You can either fight em to death to wrangle em back and lose, or you can let have their head and hope they chill out if they make the lead or relax a bit after a while.
Edgar didn't look comfortable with what was going on.

Originally Posted by Samarta

With said, I'm sure missing the week of training that close to a Grade 1, had he had his preference, they would have skipped the Beldame and instead pointed towards the Distaff. Because any good horseman in their right mind would not throw their horse into a grade 1 out of shape unless they had pressure from the person writing the checks...jmo

There isn't anything wrong with running a horse a work or two short if it gets you to the next level and where you wanna be. Horsemen have been doing it for years. Do I think a horseman does this in the summer? No. Do I think a horseman does this in a last prep for the Derby or a BC race? yes, and I see nothing wrong with it.
One thing you should remember, Matz answers to the owner and its his responsibility to get the horse to the Cup with the best possible chance to win. This was a good race to get a lot out of. I'm sure she came back blowing and will be tougher next time.

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by oracle80

There isn't anything wrong with running a horse a work or two short if it gets you to the next level and where you wanna be. Horsemen have been doing it for years. Do I think a horseman does this in the summer? No. Do I think a horseman does this in a last prep for the Derby or a BC race? yes, and I see nothing wrong with it.
One thing you should remember, Matz answers to the owner and its his responsibility to get the horse to the Cup with the best possible chance to win. This was a good race to get a lot out of. I'm sure she came back blowing and will be tougher next time.

I understand that and really don't disagree with anything you said, there's just more to it....and I really hope you're right, you and I shared opinions about this filly on the previous board and I've always liked her.