Weekend Stakes Beyers: Gun Runner 110

[Kasept]

CD Stephen Foster H (G1): Gun Runner 110 (Candy Ride-ARG) S. Asmussen/F. Geroux
CD Wise Dan S (G2): Kasaqui-ARG 99 (Lasting Approval) I. Correas/J. Graham
CD Fleur de Lis H (G2): Forever Unbridled 89 (Unbridled's Song) D. Stewart/J. Rosario
CD Regret S (G3): Sweeping Paddy 90 (Paddy O'Prado) D. Romans/L. Saez
CD Matt Winn S (G3): McCraken 93 (Ghostzapper) I. Wilkes/B. Hernandez

SA Summertime Oaks (G2): Faypien 91 (Ghostzapper) B. Baffert/R. Bejarano
SA Honeymoon S (G2): Sircat Sally 88 (Surf Cat) J. Hollendorfer/M. Smith
SA Desert Stormer S (G3): Bendable -- (Horse Greeley) R. Mandella/M. Smith

MTH Salvator Mile S (G3): Classy Class 97 (Discreetly Mine) K. McLaughlin/A. Gallardo
MTH Pegasus S (G3): Timeline 99 (Hard Spun) C. Brown/J. Castellano

GP Ginger Punch S: Somethingelse 86 (Leroidesanimaux-BRZ) L. Azpurua/E. Zayas
GP Soldier's Dancer S: Mystic Sky 90 (Sky Mesa) P. Gleaves/L. Panici

BEL Poker S (G3): Ballagh Rocks 103 (Stormy Atlantic) W. Mott/J. Lezcano
BEL Dancin Renee S: Wonderment 91 (Cosmonaut) K. McPeek/D. Davis

CBY Mystic Lake Mile S: Hay Dakota 93 (Haynesfield) J. Berndt/D. Velazquez
CBY Lady Canterbury S: Sweet Tapper 87 (Tapit) I. Wilkes/O. Mojica

LRL Alma North S: Shimmering Aspen 84 (Malibu Moon) R. Jenkins/S. Hamilton

PRM Cyclones H: Net Gain -- (Include) C. Stuart/T. Thompson
PRM Hawkeyes H: Mywomanfromtokyo 79 (Neko Bay) K. Von Hemel/G. Corbett

DEL Light Hearted S: Elate 88 (Medaglia d'Oro) W. Mott/F. Lynch
DEL Christiana S: Journey Home 77 (War Front) H. Motion/E. Prado

AP Mike Spellman Memorial H: Lovely Loyree 92 (Cactus Ridge) M. Boyce/J. Valdivia
AP Black Tie Affair H: Oak Brook 94 (Giant's Causeway) B. Williamson/S. Sanjur

WO Trillium S: Minks Aprise 85 (Northern Afleet) R. Attfield/R. Hernandez

PID Satin and Lace S: Natural Wonder -- (Summer Bird) S. Schu/L. Garcia

[Indian Charlie]

Can you post the fig please when it's available for kimberlea k yesterday at golden gate? I know it's only a 2yo msw, but I am curious, especially since dorf trains her.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Can you post the fig please when it's available for kimberlea k yesterday at golden gate? I know it's only a 2yo msw, but I am curious, especially since dorf trains her.

Horse looked ok

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Can you post the fig please when it's available for kimberlea k yesterday at golden gate? I know it's only a 2yo msw, but I am curious, especially since dorf trains her.

57

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by Kasept

57

BOOM!

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by cakes44

BOOM!

Yeah, it was an interesting race, and while in no way was i as impressed as with shared beliefs debut, 57 seems pretty stupid.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, it was an interesting race, and while in no way was i as impressed as with shared beliefs debut, 57 seems pretty stupid.

The number is hard to argue with. 3 races earlier a MCLM winner making a 5th start went in :59.04 (41 Beyer). Kimberlea K's race went in :58.20.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, it was an interesting race, and while in no way was i as impressed as with shared beliefs debut, 57 seems pretty stupid.

The guy who makes the figures there is stupid.

In all seriousness, you're talking about a 2YO firster on a synthetic surface where she blasted off then kind of crawled home. The par for the race is 59. What figure would you give it?

[Indian Charlie]

Again, I realize numbers are impossible to be accurate for every circumstance, and this was a 5f race on synthetic, but her performance was better than a 57 indicates.

Not that I'm calling the figure maker stupid, but to me, that was unrealistic, even knowing that figures dont account for things like how easily a horse wins.

If the par for that type of race is really two points higher than what the winner scored, well, I have trouble accepting that performance was below average. That is absurd.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Again, I realize numbers are impossible to be accurate for every circumstance, and this was a 5f race on synthetic, but her performance was better than a 57 indicates.

Not that I'm calling the figure maker stupid, but to me, that was unrealistic, even knowing that figures dont account for things like how easily a horse wins.

If the par for that type of race is really two points higher than what the winner scored, well, I have trouble accepting that performance was below average. That is absurd.

You clearly have no idea how speed figures are made. By the way, I make the Golden Gate Beyers.

There is no visual element to a final time speed figure. Not one iota. IN fact, in situations where horses are "geared down" late the figures often suffer. That created a big problem in a race like last year's Awesome Again, where California Chrome was clearly slowed to a point where the final time was affected.

Synthetics are very tricky for figure making. While the speed of the surface is very consistent, they are highly dependent on pace. Could I have treated Kimberlea K's race different because it had a fast pace for the level? Sure, there's an argument to be made, but at 5fs, you are sure to get into trouble projecting speed figures based on 1/4 mile times.

The good thing about it is that she is a 2YO filly who was debuting, so there are ample opportunities for her to run and prove me wrong.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You clearly have no idea how speed figures are made. By the way, I make the Golden Gate Beyers.

There is no visual element to a final time speed figure. Not one iota. IN fact, in situations where horses are "geared down" late the figures often suffer. That created a big problem in a race like last year's Awesome Again, where California Chrome was clearly slowed to a point where the final time was affected.

Synthetics are very tricky for figure making. While the speed of the surface is very consistent, they are highly dependent on pace. Could I have treated Kimberlea K's race different because it had a fast pace for the level? Sure, there's an argument to be made, but at 5fs, you are sure to get into trouble projecting speed figures based on 1/4 mile times.

The good thing about it is that she is a 2YO filly who was debuting, so there are ample opportunities for her to run and prove me wrong.

I figured it was you based on your first response to me. And in the rest of my post I was agreeing with there being difficulties in making a figure for that type of race. I don't have an adequate answer for you regarding how I would have scored it, but that race was not below average.

I wasnt trying to insult you or anything like that but I really did expect a significantly higher number and was surprised by the number you came up with.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I figured it was you based on your first response to me. And in the rest of my post I was agreeing with there being difficulties in making a figure for that type of race. I don't have an adequate answer for you regarding how I would have scored it, but that race was not below average.

I wasnt trying to insult you or anything like that but I really did expect a significantly higher number and was surprised by the number you came up with.

The good news is because the fig was SO ordinary you will get a great price on her when she steps up in the Sorrento or maybe Dorf just bypasses that with this monster and goes straight Debutante?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The good news is because the fig was SO ordinary you will get a great price on her when she steps up in the Sorrento or maybe Dorf just bypasses that with this monster and goes straight Debutante?

Your attempt at sarcasm is lame, sorry.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Your attempt at sarcasm is lame, sorry.

In all candor wouldnt she have been beaten a poll by the good 2 yr olds that have started too date?

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Can you post the fig please when it's available for kimberlea k yesterday at golden gate? I know it's only a 2yo msw, but I am curious, especially since dorf trains her.

Very quick Filly.
Hollendorfer probably debuted her @ GGF because of her sire Indian Evening.
Indian Evening was 2 for 3 lifetime,both of his wins came on the synthetic @ Woodbine.
She looks like a pretty good sort.


http://www.victoryrose.com/html/indianevening.html

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by freddymo

In all candor wouldnt she have been beaten a poll by the good 2 yr olds that have started too date?

I could tell very little by watching that race, actually. I couldn't form an opinion one way or the other, but I did expect a better rating.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Very quick Filly.
Hollendorfer probably debuted her @ GGF because of her sire Indian Evening.
Indian Evening was 2 for 3 lifetime,both of his wins came on the synthetic @ Woodbine.
She looks like a pretty good sort.


http://www.victoryrose.com/html/indianevening.html

Yeah, being a fan of Indian Charlie i liked and remembered Indian Evening. I too also think she was aimed for a race on synthetic.