Week/Weekend Stakes Beyers

[Kasept]

KEE Breeders' Cup Classic (G1): Authentic 111 (Into Mischief) B. Baffert/J. Velazquez
KEE Breeders' Cup Turf (G1): Tarnawa-IRE 109 (Shamardal) D. Weld/C. Keane
KEE Breeders' Cup Sprint (G1): Whitmore 104 (Pleasantly Perfect) R. Moquett/I. Ortiz
KEE Breeders' Cup F&M Turf (G1): Audarya-FR 103 (Wootton Bassett-GB) J. Fanshawe/P. Boudot
KEE Breeders' Cup Mile (G1): Order of Australia-IRE 105 (Australia-GB) A. O'Brien/P. Boudot
KEE Breeders' Cup Distaff (G1): Monomoy Girl 100 (Tapizar) B. Cox/F. Geroux
KEE Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint (G1): Glass Slippers-GB 104 (Dream Ahead) K. Ryan/T. Eaves
KEE Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile (G1): Knicks Go 108 (Paynter) B. Cox/J. Rosario
KEE Breeders' Cup F&M Sprint (G1): Gamine 110. (Into Mischief) B. Baffert/J. Velazquez

KEE Breeders' Cup Juvenile (G1): Essential Quality 95 Tapit B. Cox/L. Saez
KEE Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies (G1): Vequist 93 Nyquist R. Reid/J. Rosario
KEE Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf Sprint (G2): Golden Pal 90 Uncle Mo W. Ward/I. Ortiz
KEE Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies Turf (G1): Aunt Pearl-IRE 91 Lope de Vega (IRE) B. Cox/F. Geroux
KEE Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf (G1): Fire At Will 90 Declaration of War M. Maker/R. Santana

KEE Lafayette S: Sleepy Eyes Todd 98 (Paddy O'Prado) M. Silva/J. Rosario
KEE Fort Springs S: Merneith 86 (American Pharoah) B. Baffert/L. Saez
KEE Perryville S: Nashville 102 (Speightstown) S. Asmussen/R. Santana
KEE TAA S (G2): Rocketry 92 Hard Spun J. Jerkens/I. Ortiz
KEE McConnell Springs S: Amy's Challenge 89 Artie Schiller M. Robertson/J. Lezcano
KEE Bryan Station S: Ever Dangerous 91 Kitten's Joy G. Weaver/J. Castellano
KEE Nyquist S: Highly Motivated 96 Into Mischief C. Brown/J. Castellano
KEE Songbird S: Joy's Rocket 80 Anthony's Cross S. Asmussen/R. Santana

AQU Nashua S (G3): Pickin' Time 82 (Stay Thirsty) K. Breen/T. McCarthy
AQU Turnback the Alarm H (G3): Royal Flag 94 (Candy Ride-ARG) C. Brown/T. McCarthy
AQU Stewart Manor S: Illegal Smile-IRE 86 (Camacho-GB) W. Ward/C. Torres
AQU Atlantic Beach S: Arrest Me Red 77 Pioneerof the Nile A. Delacour/H. Diaz
AQU Tempted S: Malathaat 83 Curlin T. Pletcher/K. Carmouche

WO Autumn S (G2): Skywire 94 (Afleet Alex) M. Casse/R. Hernandez
WO Maple Leaf S (G3): Heavenly Curlin 90 Curlin M. Casse/R. Hernandez

DMR Betty Grable S: Mo See Cal - (Uncle Mo) P. Miller/F. Prat
DMR Golden State Juvenile Fillies S: September Secret 62 Grazen P. Miller/R. Gonzalez
DMR Golden State Juvenile S: Good With People 67 (Curlin to Mischief) P. Miller/R. Gonzalez

PEN Shamrock Rose S: Plane Drunk 72 Stay Thirsty P. Schoenthal/E. Gonzalez

MVR Ohio Debutante H: Edge of Night 65 (Added Edge) R. Gorham/C. Pilares

GG Joseph T. Grace S: Camino Del Paraiso 95 (Suances-GB) O. Jauregui/C. Martinez

GPW Cellars Shiraz S: American Giant 84 (More Than Ready) M. Trombetta/P. Lopez
GPW Showing Up S: Monforte 85 (Carpe Diem) R. Gracida/E. Prado

[freddymo]

Nashville 102 v Gamine 110 is an interesting discussion... Rushing Fall ran incredibly

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Nashville 102 v Gamine 110 is an interesting discussion...

Gosh… If only there was a place to have that discussion with someone like Andy Beyer, say at 9:20 on the Monday after Breeders’ Cup.

[Alabama Stakes]

That should be rich. 8 points higher ? How is Beyer gonna wiggle his way out of that one ?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

That should be rich. 8 points higher ? How is Beyer gonna wiggle his way out of that one ?

What did you have the race on your “no brain cells left dumbass” scale Dan?

[Alabama Stakes]

A buck three eighty.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

A buck three eighty.

Good answer

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Nashville 102 v Gamine 110 is an interesting discussion... Rushing Fall ran incredibly

I would think Nashville vs Whitmore would be an interesting discussion as well.

[Dahoss]

What did the runner up in Nashville’s race get Beyerwise in his prior start?

[King Glorious]

I have a basic understanding of figures. I understand that tracks can change during the day depending on how much they water it, how the weather is, etc. This can explain why a track can have nearly identical times on a day and have different figures. I get that. What I have a harder time grasping is how they determine if it changed or not? Nashville ran super fast and broke the track record. Gamine did the same a couple of races later. Knicks Go did the same a couple of races later. Then came the Sprint. Whitmore's time was much slower than Nashville's yet he got a higher speed figure. Isn't that saying that the track slowed down? But then you come back with Monomoy Girl running a fast race and just missing the track record by .09 and then Authentic setting a track record a couple of races later.

Interesting stuff here.

[King Glorious]

Second part of the question. If perhaps they thought to themselves "This is crazy and dangerous" after having Nashville, Gamine, and Knicks Go set track records.....so they slowed the track down.....that would make sense in explaining why Whitmore's race was "faster" than Nashville's race.

But if the track had been slowed down, wouldn't that mean that Monomoy Girl and Authentic should have received much higher figures, especially Monomoy Girl? If she only got 100 after just missing the track record, isn't that saying the track was fast? So was it fast for every race except the Sprint? Does that make sense?

[freddymo]

My GUESS is they used some discretion to augment Nashville's fig? Let's listen to Andy tomorrow.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Second part of the question. If perhaps they thought to themselves "This is crazy and dangerous" after having Nashville, Gamine, and Knicks Go set track records.....so they slowed the track down.....that would make sense in explaining why Whitmore's race was "faster" than Nashville's race.

But if the track had been slowed down, wouldn't that mean that Monomoy Girl and Authentic should have received much higher figures, especially Monomoy Girl? If she only got 100 after just missing the track record, isn't that saying the track was fast? So was it fast for every race except the Sprint? Does that make sense?

The Classic time is irrelevant to the discussion; the timing system was botched and they had to hand-time the race.

Monomoy Girl was just shy of the 9f track record that was recorded in October during the 2016 fall meet (1:47.75, Noble Bird in the Fayette).

Ignoring the new track record set by Nashville in Saturday's first race, Whitmore was just shy of the 6f track record that was also recorded in October during the 2016 fall meet (1:08.43, A.P. Indian in the Phoenix BC).

The track records set earlier in the card were something like 3/5 to a full second faster than the previous marks.

[Kasept]

BEYER CHARTING OF PERRYVILLE & BC SPRINT

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The Classic time is irrelevant to the discussion; the timing system was botched and they had to hand-time the race.

Monomoy Girl was just shy of the 9f track record that was recorded in October during the 2016 fall meet (1:47.75, Noble Bird in the Fayette).

Ignoring the new track record set by Nashville in Saturday's first race, Whitmore was just shy of the 6f track record that was also recorded in October during the 2016 fall meet (1:08.43, A.P. Indian in the Phoenix BC).

The track records set earlier in the card were something like 3/5 to a full second faster than the previous marks.

I'm confused as to what point you're making. Yes, if you ignore Nashville's race then Whitmore's looks better. But you can't ignore Nashville's race. So was the track really fast, which means fast times don't yield really high figures, or was it slow, where fast times will yield high figures? I think even if you eliminate the Gamine, Knicks Go, and Authentic races, the other three give us some interesting results. Nashville and Monomoy Girl both ran times that were too fast to get a 102 and 100 Beyer, respectively, if you figure the track was normal. So aren't the saying the track was really fast? If it was the same all day, Nashville has got to be higher than Whitmore and likely, so does Monomoy Girl. If it slowed down for Whitmore (and to be clear, I'm not saying Whitmore's race was slow, just slow by the standards of the past two days), how did it speed back up for the last two races?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'm confused as to what point you're making. Yes, if you ignore Nashville's race then Whitmore's looks better. But you can't ignore Nashville's race. So was the track really fast, which means fast times don't yield really high figures, or was it slow, where fast times will yield high figures? I think even if you eliminate the Gamine, Knicks Go, and Authentic races, the other three give us some interesting results. Nashville and Monomoy Girl both ran times that were too fast to get a 102 and 100 Beyer, respectively, if you figure the track was normal. So aren't the saying the track was really fast? If it was the same all day, Nashville has got to be higher than Whitmore and likely, so does Monomoy Girl. If it slowed down for Whitmore (and to be clear, I'm not saying Whitmore's race was slow, just slow by the standards of the past two days), how did it speed back up for the last two races?

My premise is that if the track was still as fast as it was earlier on the card then Monomoy Girl would have broke a track record as well.

It's shaky evidence to say they did not slow the track down because she almost broke a track record (so did Whitmore) and because Authentic's hand-timed race was a track record at a distance hardly ever run at that track.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Kasept

BEYER CHARTING OF PERRYVILLE & BC SPRINT

Thanks. If you give Nashville a 110 that means the runner up gets a 102. That’d be a 15 point jump from his last race which was his career best, 87.

Seems pretty unreasonable.

It’s not an exact science but there is a method to the madness

[Dahoss]

How embarrassing is it that the Classic had to be hand timed?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

My premise is that if the track was still as fast as it was earlier on the card then Monomoy Girl would have broke a track record as well.

It's shaky evidence to say they did not slow the track down because she almost broke a track record (so did Whitmore) and because Authentic's hand-timed race was a track record at a distance hardly ever run at that track.

Ok, I get it now although I still disagree. The point about the 10f being rarely run is a legit one but he still set the record for the distance. I would just contend that if it was so fast that not only did Nashville obliterate the record but also the runner-up Wild Wes probably broke the track record......and they slowed it up to where the BC Sprint winner couldn't break the old record, then I would think that Monomoy Girl's figure would be much higher. Giving her a figure of 100 makes it look like yeah, it was a great time but the track was so fast that it wasn't as great as it appeared, the same reason why Nashville only got a 102.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

How embarrassing is it that the Classic had to be hand timed?

When you look at the big picture regarding Keeneland's management techniques during the meet, we should just be thankful they ran races on the grass and had competent video recordings of the races...