New Contest Format - Points Picks and ROI Wagers

[DonGuido]

Hello all long time Derbytrail members and newbies too. I am setting up a thread called POINT PICKS AND ROI WAGERING or a shorter abbreviation as needed. There is group of us 10-15 handicappers and knowledgeable horse racing fans that are joining up here, some already here and more to come, that have been playing this contest for years (myself for at least 10 years).

I will post the rules and how the contest(s) work and we plan on having our first Point Picks and ROI Contest here on October 25th. One week before the Breeders Cup. We will hold our year ending Breeders Cup Championship the following Fri and Sat to determine the Gallivan Cup Winner and announce the Champions of the regular season for both the Points and ROI Contests.

You are all welcome to join in any time. I encourage you to try it out and test your best handicapping against some of our best . . . Ya'see we need a new home, since the forum we have been on for some time is going off line soon. Arletta was kind enough to suggest this forum and for us to look over and try it out. Many of us have and we like it!!!

So more posts to come on the Points Picks and ROI Contest like formalities of the rules, some of which want to modify some going into our next handicapping year 2nd week after Breeders Cup to the next Breeders Cup, our fiscal year.

BTW - this is played with cyber money for the ROI Contest, you can read more in the Rules. The Points Picks Contest seems easy but just wait until you try it to judge it. Most of us have been playing these fun contests for some time and look forward to it every week. For example it has improved my handicapping skills 250% and I still suck off and on so you can imagine what I was like before all these 10 or so years.

Please consider joining in or at least try it and see if you like it. I am and we are all happy to be here or will be here and we look forward to a long time, and "it has the makings of a beautiful relationship".

Thank you and special thanks to Arletta!!!
DonGuido (DG)

[DonGuido]

SCORING RULES FOR POINTS and ROI CONTESTS
(Modified - March 31, 2009, w/o permission by Donald A. Jones) (Modified - December 26, 2013, w/o permission by Donald A. Jones) (Modified w/o permission by Donald A. Jones December 12, 2014)

Weekly Points Awards:
In the Points scores, everyone gets 1 point just for showing up. In the ROI, points are awarded as far out as 4th place AS LONG AS the ROI is in the black. No points for break-evens or minuses. Points are awarded out to 4th place in the Points and ROI contests. In both contests ,the winner in receives 10 points, second place gets 8 points, third gets 5, and fourth gets 4 points. On Triple Crown days, all points you receive for that day are doubled. Bonus points are not doubled.

Bonus Points:
In addition to the points you can get in the Points and ROI Contests, there are bonus points. If you Sweep the Points and ROI (win them both on the same card) you receive a bonus of 20 points. Back-to-back Points or ROI wins receive a bonus of 20 points. A Points or ROI three-peat receives a bonus of 30 points. A Four-Peat or more in the Points or ROI Contests receives a 30 point bonus. At the end of each month, the handicapper that totals the most ROI winnings for that month will receive a 10 point bonus added to their Points and ROI totals.

At the end of the year to be named the Regular Season ROI Contest Handicapper of the Year you must have played the ROI Contest a minimum of 26 weeks total . . . not in a row but 26 weeks out of the handicap year.

Why do we do this? Mostly to participate in friendly competition and to become better handicappers . . . while offering a slight sense of accomplishment and recognition for the “fun” of it.

Our handicapping year runs from the second Saturday after the Breeders' Cup to the next year's Breeders' Cup Day. Two regular season awards of recognition are offered.
1- At the end of the handicapping year, including points won on Breeders Cup Day, the “Regular Season Handicapper of the Year” will be crowned based on the total points accumulated throughout the year for the points and ROI contests.
2- We will also name the “Top ROI Handicapper of the Year”, determined by the player that has bank rolled the most positive cash throughout the year. If there is no one who can account for a year- long positive ROI, then this award will not be offered.

And last but not least -
Our Final and most Revered Year End Trophy

On Breeder’s Cup Day, in honor of our late friend, Glen Gallivan ("Glenners"), we hold a "Contest-Within-A-Contest". The Top 10 players, as determined by points accumulated throughout the year, as of the weekend before the Breeders' Cup make up the players for "The Gallivan Memorial Handicapping Contest" or "The Gallivan Cup".

The Top 10 players play the same Breeders' Cup card as everyone else. Whichever player has the highest finish on Breeders' Cup Day “takes home” the "The Glen Gallivan Memorial Trophy". For our handicappers, this is the highest prize of the year and equivalent to winning the Breeders Cup Classic.

For those of us who knew Glenners, it is a fitting way to honor his memory and reward the top prize of the year in his name.
________________________________________
© 2008 by Carol J. Sherman. All Rights Reserved.

SPECIFIC POINTS CONTEST RULES:
(Modified - March 31, 2009 w/o permission by Donald A. Jones)

NOTE: Please note that there is only one set of picks allowed per player. Playing under multiple names with multiple picks is prohibited. One set of picks per player; no playing under multiple names. Thanks.

CONTEST RULES:
Post all picks for the designated card in the threads noted on the forum. There will be a Points Picks thread and ROI Thread. All picks must be posted before the official start (post time) of the card's first race. Changes can be made in each thread up to until that time. Picks or changes for points or wagers for ROI made after the official post time will result in disqualification of the handicapper’s picks for either points or ROI, whichever is affected, for that day’s contest. The Moderator or Admin of the site will have the authority to make this determination. It is each player’s responsibility and duty in fairness to abide by this rule.
Choose 3 horses in the order you think they will finish, plus two alternates to be used only if one of your 3 picks scratches. The preferred way of posting your picks for each race is: 5-6-1-3-4. This indicates #5 wins, #6 places, #1 shows and #3 and #4 are your alternates in that order. If one of your horses scratches, all others will move up in order and your first alternate will move into the show spot. If you pick a horse that is part of an entry, you get the entry. If you pick a horse from the MUTUEL FIELD, please use the entry number. No matter which horse is your pick, you get the field. For all other picks, use PROGRAM NUMBERS. Do not use Post Position numbers. You can usually get program numbers from equibase.com, drf.com or from the track’s website.

Due to rainy weather conditions it may be determined that the turf races are run on the main track, then you are allowed two sets of picks, one set for the races as they are scheduled on the turf and one set to be used only if the races come off the turf. (This is for scheduled turf races only! Post your "off- turf" picks in parenthesis along-side your first Turf picks. An example: 4-6-1-12-9 (off turf 9-10-5-1-3).

The winner of the previous week's contest chooses the track to be played next. EXCEPTION: There are some days that are "automatic plays", and the prior week's winner doesn't get to pick the track; we automatically go to these: Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont Stakes and The Breeders' Cup. The winner of these contests picks the track for the next week.

Note on entries:

Picking one horse of an entry (or field) gets you all. For example, if there are two entries of three and two horses, respectively, and the result is:

1B, 2 2B, 1C 1B, 5, 3, 4

then the exacta is 1-2 and the trifecta is 1-2-5. DO NOT SPLIT AN ENTRY!! For example, you cannot pick 1A-2-1-2-5. Entries must be kept together! In the example, what you would enter for your pick in a situation like this is 1-2-5-3-4.
________________________________
Note on Dead Heats:

A dead heat will be treated exactly as it is at the track. For example, if two horses dead heat for the place spot, the order of finish would look like this:

Win: 3
Place: 5, 7

Players will be given the highest number of points possible for their combinations in a dead heat situation.
_________________________________
Note on Fields with Less Than 5 horses:
If any race has less than 5 betting interests, it will not be scored as part of the points contest, but will still be used for the ROI contest. When submitting your picks for such a race, please include the Race Number and 'x-x-x-x-x' instead of your numerical picks.

________________________________________
Scoring System for Points Handicapping Contest:
===Trifectas===
Straight.....A-B-C.....35 points
Boxed, winner on top....A-C-B....30 points
Boxed, top two reversed....B-A-C....25 points
Boxed, other. B-C-A or C-A-B or C-B-A...20 points

===Exactas===
Straight...A-B-x....25 points
Boxed, top two reversed...B-A-x....17 points
Boxed, top pick over third.... A-C-x...15 points
Boxed, other...B-C-x or C-A-x or C-B-x....7 points

===Two in the money, no Exacta===
Winner on top + 3rd....A-x-B or A-x-C....12 points
1st and 3rd without winner on top...B-x-(A or C) or C-x-(A or B.)...5 points
2nd and 3rd...x-(A or B or C)-(A or B or C)....5 points

===One in the Money===
Winner on top....10 points
Winner picked 2nd or 3rd..B-x-x or C-x-x...3 points
2nd picked anywhere..x-(A or B or C)-x...2 points
3rd picked anywhere. x-x-(A or B or C)...1 point
________________________________________
© 2008 by Carol J. Sherman. All Rights Reserved.

[DonGuido]

ROI WAGERS CONTEST RULES:
(Modified March 31, 2009 w/o permission by Donald A. Jones) Rules changes noted in green where changed without permission on November 4, 2015.

NOTE: Players, PLEASE total your bets, both per bet and total amount bet. Also, PLEASE list your bets in the same race order as the Points Contest. If we are playing more than one track, make sure you call out which track the bet is being placed at first.

IMPORTANT REMINDER WE ALL SHOULD KNOW: when you make a bet here, you should type it out (or call it out) exactly like you would when placing a bet at any track. Here is the proper way to place a bet:

Name the Track, call out the Race number, next the amount of money wagered, the type of bet and the #(s) of the horse(s) you are betting on. We will accept wagers with just the horse name and not the number although like at the track wagers on horse numbers are preferred. It does make the ROI score keepers job easier. If we play multiple tracks, which at time we do, the track name where you are placing your bet must be called out for that wager to be accepted.

Bets placed any other way will not be accepted.

1. The ROI contest is played at the same track as the Points contest, including simulcasts. This means that the same post time applies, i.e. please have your bets posted by first post at the main track we're playing. In addition, the Race Order for posting your bets is the same as the ROI.

2. Allowable bets are any bet offered by the track you are playing. Make sure the race you are betting on has your type of bet available. In the event that you make a bet that isn't offered, your original bankroll will be reduced by the amount of that bet. You do NOT get a refund credited to you. Occasionally, a track we are playing will offer a special bet; watch the Board, we will probably take that also. Any allowable bet offered by a track with a $2 minimum, we'll take $1 minimums on that bet (i.e. Doubles, P3, P4's, P6's, etc.). If you hit it, the payout will be half of the track payout.

3. Each player starts with a mythical (cyber) bankroll of $100. This is a weekly contest, so every week, you get a fresh $100.00 to start with. There are no carryovers from the week before.

EXCEPTION: on Triple Crown Races and Breeder's Cup Day your cyber Bankroll is doubled to $200.

4. You can bet on 4 races. Within those 4 races, you can bet WPS, Exactas, Trifectas, and/or Superfectas, if offered. There is no limit on the types of bets you may make on any one race, as long as it's WPS, Ex, Tri, and Super. For example, if you want to bet on Race 1, and you want to bet a WPS, an exacta, and a Tri, that all counts as one Race, and you can bet on 3 other races.

5. If you make bets involving more than one race (such as Doubles, Pick 3's and the like), such multi-race bets that are the same type of bet and involve exactly the same races all count as one Race. Bets involving more than one race that either are different types of bets or involve different races are considered separate Races for purposes of the 4 Race limit.

Please make sure that you don't go over the 4 race limit.

6. Any bets involving scratches that make the bet invalid will be declared a “no bet” unless they are replaced. For example, a "4-5" Exacta and the 4 scratches. The bet is no longer viable; you can't box a one-horse exacta. However if the bet is a "4-5-6" exacta box and the 4 scratches, the bet is still viable, because there are two horses left in the bet.

7. Alternates posted with the original post are NOT permitted, and will be ignored. There are NO ALTERNATES ALLOWED in the ROI Contest. However, if you find that a horse you have in one of your bets has scratched you are allowed to edit your post to change your bet, but make sure that you do it by first post. Anything after first post won't be accepted.

9. The weekly champ is the player who has the highest ROI (winnings minus bets) on the day.
________________________________________
© 2008 by Carol J. Sherman. All Rights Reserved.

[DonGuido]

THE GALLIVAN CUP

Here is an article I found that gives a little background on Glen "Glenners" Gallivan. He loved thoroughbred racing with every ounce of his frail body. Anet and I were to meet him at Churchill Downs on the day before the 2000 Breeders Cup but our plans changed and we ended up going to the Horse Park instead. I'm sorry we missed him. Anet used to exchange spirited posts with him prior to his eventual fatal final illness. I was a real rookie back then and his knowledge and insight made my head spin and even made JolyB, our Professor, look like a high school kid.

Read this short piece on Glenners and understand why we have done the BC Gallivan Memorial Cup contest to end our handicapping year now since around 2004. It is a small honor we pay to a real horse person, a real fan and an expert in the game. It is an honor that I hope this honor to Glenners continues for as long as this contest format stays alive.

ENJOY!
__________________________________________________ ____

Glen Gallivan aka G L E N N E R S is well known among racing enthusiasts. Since 1997 he has worked for Beyer Associates, where he compiles speed figures for the Daily Racing Form for a number of tracks throughout North America. Cashing winning tickets, since the age of 13, he has covered major horse races for the WPRO radio station in Ocala, and as the former assistant editor for Florida's WIRE to WIRE and a correspondent for FLORIDA HORSE magazine.

It is with a heavy heart I must let you all know that Glenners passed away today, September 20, 2003. He was always in fragile health but still enjoyed racing and sharing his selections when he was able. I know we will all miss him. Here is a bit more about Glenners for those who are interested.

Glen Gallivan, known to us as Glenners, fought a lifelong battle with muscular dystrophy. He had also been on a ventilator since a bad bout with pneumonia in 2001. He passed away unexpected at the age of 30, likely from complications caused by his respiratory problems.

"He had 30 wonderful years, many more than anyone thought," said Glenners' mother, Patti Hackett. "He knew that life was before him now, and he had fun with it."

He had been a friend of Washington Post columnist and speed figure guru Andy Beyer since a chance meeting at the Kentucky Derby in 1997. He later became his employee and compiled speed figures for him for six years. Beyer said, "He put a lot of things in perspective. If I had some little complaint, everything seemed so trivial to what he experienced. And yet, I never heard him complain, never heard a word of self-pity. He seemed to accept his lot in life and make the most of it."

His body will be cremated and his ashes shared among several race tracks where he enjoyed cashing in winning tickets.

As a sort of living memorial, there is a 2-year-old colt named Glenners currently in training in the Maryland circuit. Watch for him and remember Glenners and his love of horse racing.
__________________________________________________ __

Thanks to Ryan Conley of the Ocala Star-Banner for the quotes.

[RUFFIAN]

Just Testing To See If I Got This Right?

[DonGuido]

Next Saturday!!! It will be the end of the racing season for the contest and those of us coming over (and it may take al little while) from TheCallToPost will be finishing up the 2014 handicapping year next Saturday to crown:

1. Announce the Top Ten going for the Cup
2. The Regular Season Champ
3. The ROI Champ, and most importantly
4. The Winner of the Gallivan Cup based on Breeders Cup Handicapping two day event.

With other festivities involved as well. We don't play with real money but we have a WHOOOOOOLE LOT of FUNNNNNNNN and, knowingly or not, we become much better handicappers in the process.

Look in on us (see how it works) and please think about trying this out starting the second Saturday after the Breeders Cup. Ya'know, ya just might like it?

We are happy to be here and look forward to a long relationship.

Danke',
DonGUido

[Real Quiet]

For any new players who might consider joining our contests I score the ROI. I have stats from 2008 spanning 345 weeks that I have been with the group. At $100 a week a positive ROI ain't easy but we have two players NJ Stinks and Digger who are still in the black. I don't know about anyone else but I have become a much better handicapper learning how to structure my bets with this format. But I lose every year so I still have a lot of room for improvement (a lot of room). I look forward to trying a few contests at the Derby Trail although I am mostly a weekend capper. Thanks to the Derby Trail for keeping me involved in furthering my racing education. Oh yeah...........its been a long time since I've been a foal <ha>.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by Real Quiet

For any new players who might consider joining our contests I score the ROI. I have stats from 2008 spanning 345 weeks that I have been with the group. At $100 a week a positive ROI ain't easy but we have two players NJ Stinks and Digger who are still in the black. I don't know about anyone else but I have become a much better handicapper learning how to structure my bets with this format. But I lose every year so I still have a lot of room for improvement (a lot of room). I look forward to trying a few contests at the Derby Trail although I am mostly a weekend capper. Thanks to the Derby Trail for keeping me involved in furthering my racing education. Oh yeah...........its been a long time since I've been a foal <ha>.

Not the first time you've been foaled or is it fooled. You are way to humble as one of our best ROI cappers for sure. I challenge anyone to beat you at this and me or JolyB at Points. Pitty the fools!!! Might happen a week or two but not in the long run, never happen.

Baaaaring it on newbies to this contest. But better to wait until our new handicapping year starts the second week after Breeders Cup. Let the wanna bees join in.

Sounds simple . . don't it???

[DonGuido]

Points and ROI Totals through October 11, 2014
(Taken from our old forum to the new)

Only one change in the standings we see this week. Ruffian cashes in to adding 3rd place points in the Points Contest and DonGuido remains sizzling HOT as he pulls for the "hat trick" of a REPEAT and a SWEEP for big bonus points . . . beware of the Don as he gears up for the Cup but he still can't catch our long time leader or can he? Oh wait there is one more week to go . . . watch out Lady Cat as he makes a valiant effort. JolyB maintains his hold on the 3 hole with nice hits in each contest and Cruzan200246 adds quality points as well with dual contest scores. And Into the Mystic moves up one rung of the tope ten ladder with a nice 2nd in ROI.

Correction added 10 bonus points to Albright Emmylou for being the ROI Champ in September and she moves up to the 4 hole for that.

Closing in on our top ten going for the Cup it's very tight and the "bottom" rungs and Plenilune's not that far behind . . . ya'never know

Moving on to our new home will be a transition and likely interesting to say the least but we did find a place to hand our horse shoes again for some time we hope. This place was fun for the most part and then it just kinda got the air let out of it with some many defectors. Thanks to all of you for keeping our small but elite family alive. Out next contest before the Breeders Cup will be at DerbyTrail.com.

So whoever wins this weekend, seek out the thread there and keep it same as we do here.

See ya there or be reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally square!!! Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


1. 443 Ruffian (3rd Pts)
2. 416 DonGuido (REPEAT AND A SWEEP WITH 50 Bonus Pts OUCH!!!)
3. 321 JolyB (4th Pts and 3rd in ROI)
4. 311 Albright Emmylou (Plus 10 pts for September ROI Champ)
5. 307 Real Quiet
6. 272 Cruzan200246 (2nd Pts and 4th ROI)
7. 243 ryonker
8. 232 GotaDunQH
9. 230 Into the Mystic (2nd ROI)
10. 228 Criminal Type

218 Plenilune
138 dapplehorse
88 NJ Stinks
83 Dance Smartly
71 Digger
41 Roamin
16 Little Watermelon

[DonGuido]

Points and ROI Totals through October 18, 2014

So coming from our old home to the new this is where we stand with one week before the Breeders Cup and the Gallivan Cup Challenge "Going for the Cup". Ruffian hangs in the lead with scores in both contests while DonGuido cools off a bit in his hot streak. Can "The Don" garner a SWEEP and take over the lead . . . they only way if Ruffian our long time yearly leader is going down . . . unlikely but don't ever count DG out. Then we have Real Quiet who hits a nice winner for ROI jumping up one rung of the ladder as Into the Mystic (Arletta) nabs the win in Points who also gains a jump up to the 8 hole.

Criminal Type moves up one as well as he lands a 4th on Points. And long time no play but always welcome (we luv ya dapple) dapplehorse grabs a nice 3rd in ROI to add to here nest egg. That's it for now as we go into our last week to determine the top ten going for the Gallivan Cup. Is there one more "lucky SWEEP" in DG's bag of "tricks" at this late stage or will Ruffian prevail and show us who is really Rocky Mountain High??!! Let's see where she takes us and if it's not Santa Anita . . . well I'll leave it at that.

BTW FOLKS - we are very happy to be here!!!

Lets see where Arletta takes us.

1. 457 Ruffian (3rd Pts and 2nd ROI)
2. 424 DonGuido (2nd in Pts)
3. 322 JolyB
4. 316 Real Quiet (1st ROI)
5. 311 Albright Emmylou
6. 273 Cruzan 20024
7. 244 ryonker
8. 239 Into the Mystic (1st Pts)
9. 234 Criminal Type (4th Pts)
10. 232 GotaDunQH

218 Plenilune
145 dapplehorse (3rd ROI)
88 NJ Stinks
83 Dance Smartly
71 Digger
42 Roamin
16 Little Watermelon

[Roamin42]

DG, what track are we at this week.

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by Roamin42

DG, what track are we at this week.

Belmont

[Digger]

Hope to be there this weekend.

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by Digger

Hope to be there this weekend.

Hi Digger! Glad you made it in time for this weekends contest

[DonGuido]

Go to the other thread.

[DonGuido]

Go to the other thread . . . sorry!

[RUFFIAN]

DON
WHAT OTHER THREAD?

I THOUGHT WE ONLY HAVE THIS ONE ONLY?

OH!!! NOW I SEE SAYS THE BLONDE BLIND CAT!!!
I SEE TWO SEPARATE PLACES
APPARENTLY DID NOT SEE THAT BEFORE

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by RUFFIAN-333

DON
WHAT OTHER THREAD?

I THOUGHT WE ONLY HAVE THIS ONE ONLY?

Look for the individual threads for Points and ROI and post your usual wagers and points picks there.

[Real Quiet]

Originally Posted by Roamin42

DG, what track are we at this week.

When I saw this message in my mailbox I thought for sure Arizona Dave was playing!

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by Real Quiet

When I saw this message in my mailbox I thought for sure Arizona Dave was playing!