Week/Weekend Stakes Beyers: Gamine 110, Tiz the Law 100

[Kasept]

BEL Belmont S. (G1): Tiz the Law 100 (Constitution) B. Tagg/M. Franco
BEL Acorn S (G1): Gamine 110 (Into Mischief) B. Baffert/J. Velazquez
BEL Jaipur S (G1): Oleksandra-AUS 101 (Animal Kingdom) N. Drysdale/J. Rosario
BEL Woody Stephens S. (G1): No Parole 100 (Violence) T. Amoss/L. Saez
BEL Pennine Ridge S (G2): Decorated Invader 93 (Declaration of War) C. Clement/J. Rosario
BEL Wonder Again S (G3): Sweet Melania 87 (American Pharoah) T. Pletcher/J. Ortiz
BEL OC/ALW-C: Breaking the Rules 97 (War Front) C. McGaughey/J. Velazquez
BEL F/M-ALW/N1X (6.5f): Indian Pride 87 (Proud Citizen) C. Brown/J. Castellano
BEL 3yo MSW (7f): Happy Saver 89 (Super Saver) T. Pletcher/J. Velazquez
BEL Lady Shipman S: Bredenbury-IRE - (Night of Thunder-IRE) H. Motion/L. Saez
BEL Sir Cat S: Jack and Noah-FR 89 (Bated Breath-GB) M. Casse/J. Velazquez
BEL Critical Eye S: Ratajkowski 82 (Drosselmeyer) H. Motion/J. Ortiz

CD Wise Dan S (G2): Factor This 98 (The Factor) B. Cox/S. Bridgmohan
CD Audubon S: Field Pass 92 (Lemon Drop Kid) M. Maker/T. Gaffalione

SA Lazaro Barrera S (G3): Collusion Illusion 91 (Twirling Candy) M. Glatt/F. Prat
SA Wilshire S (G3): Toinette 91 (Scat Daddy) N. Drysdale/F. Prat
SA American S (G3): Blitzkrieg 99 (War Front) D. O'Neill/V. Espinoza
SA San Juan Capistrano S (G3): Red King 92 (English Channel) P. D'Amato/U. Rispoli
SA Snow Chief S: Indian Peak 80 (Comic Strip) Q. Howey/M. Smith
SA Melair S: Warren's Showtime 85 (Clubhouse Ride) C. Lewis/J. Velez
SA Siren Lure S: Big Runnuer 96 (Stormy Atlantic) V. Garcia/R. Fuentes

WO Whimsical S (G3): Jean Elizabeth - (Adios Charlie) L. Rivelli/D. Moran

RUI Mountain Top Futurity: Up via DQ My Storm Warrior 48 (Attila's Storm) T. Fincher/F. Reyes

TDN George Lewis Memorial S: Mobil Solution 80 (Mobil) J. Radosevich/L. Rivera
TDN J. William Petro Memorial H: Drillit 79 (Drill) R. Gorham/T. Houghton

DEL Obeah S: Lucky Move 93 (Lookin At Lucky) J. Guerrero/R. Rosado

IND Sagamore Sired S: Cash Logistics 54 (Unbridled Express) G. Londono/J. Graham
IND Swifty Sired Fillies S: Sandy's Newsgirl 44 (Elite Squadron) T. Glyshaw/F. De La Cruz

CBY 10,000 Lakes S: Hot Shot Kid 90 (Majestic Warrior) M. Robertson/F. Arrieta
CBY Lady Slipper S: Ready to Runaway 88 (First Dude) M. Robertson/A. Canchari

[cakes44]

Quite a bit of change in the track throughout the day I guess. Either way, Happy Saver was extremely impressive.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Quite a bit of change in the track throughout the day I guess. Either way, Happy Saver was extremely impressive.

How did the track change?

[cakes44]

I’m assuming...didn’t No Parole and Happy Saver run the same time?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

How did the track change?

Ask CJ? He has the answer or at least thinks he does

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Ask CJ? He has the answer or at least thinks he does

I would but he blocked me on twitter. I disagreed with him. Kinda soft.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I’m assuming...didn’t No Parole and Happy Saver run the same time?

No Parole ran almost a full second faster to the 3/4’s.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I would but he blocked me on twitter. I disagreed with him. Kinda soft.

He couldn't have known it was you

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I’m assuming...didn’t No Parole and Happy Saver run the same time?

One was 1:21.41, the other was 1:21.51. You’d think that the figure would be nearly identical.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

One was 1:21.41, the other was 1:21.51. You’d think that the figure would be nearly identical.

Internal fractions don’t matter?

[Dahoss]

I’m constantly amused at people who talk about speed figures but know nothing about them, how they are made, etc.

Ignorance is bliss!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Internal fractions don’t matter?

Unless the process has changed, Beyer figures are based on final times only. They may use projections or past races to see if a figure makes sense. Internal fractions and ground loss and other factors are used in different figure systems. Two horses in the same race can finish a nose apart and they get an identical number. They don’t say “horse a was on the lead the entire time and ran these fractions and horse b was way off the pace and ran different fractions so they get a different figure.”

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Internal fractions don’t matter?

For BSF? No, unless I missed the memo.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by cakes44

For BSF? No, unless I missed the memo.

You might have missed a memo or two while you’ve been incorrectly talking about Kent Desormeaux rides.

If Happy Saver got a 100, that would’ve put the runner up in the lower 90’s? Does that seem right?

[cakes44]

I’m asking you my man?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Unless the process has changed, Beyer figures are based on final times only. They may use projections or past races to see if a figure makes sense. Internal fractions and ground loss and other factors are used in different figure systems. Two horses in the same race can finish a nose apart and they get an identical number. They don’t say “horse a was on the lead the entire time and ran these fractions and horse b was way off the pace and ran different fractions so they get a different figure.”

Don’t you think they used past races here?

That reminds me of something I’ve been meaning to ask you. What is higher, Happy Saver’s debut Beyer or your annual horse racing handle?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I’m asking you my man?

What did the runner up get last time?

[cakes44]

Again, I’m literally asking you. Could you please explain the difference to me? I respect your opinion.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Again, I’m literally asking you. Could you please explain the difference to me? I respect your opinion.

I don’t know what the runner up got in his debut. Do you have yesterday’s PP’s handy?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Don’t you think they used past races here?

That reminds me of something I’ve been meaning to ask you. What is higher, Happy Saver’s debut Beyer or your annual horse racing handle?

Even if they took past races into account, that still wouldn’t change the fact that they ran the same time in the same track at the same distance yesterday. With that being the case you cannot say based on times that one was faster than the other. The only logical assumption to make is that they are saying the track changed.

Think of it another way. If one horse consistently runs 100 and another consistently runs 80 then they both run on the same day and get the same time, you are left with a couple of different choices:

A) the horse that always runs an 80 ran much faster today
B) the horse that always runs 100 ran much slower today
C) both horses ran close to their norm but the track was changed

This is pretty basic stuff that I’m hoping someone else will have the courage to tell you.