5/4 (CD): 145th Kentucky Derby Day

[Kasept]

145th KENTUCKY DERBY

1. War of Will (Casse/Gaffalione) 20-1
2. Tax (Gargan/Alvarado) 20-1
3. By My Standards (Calhoun/G. Saez) 20-1
4. Gray Magician (Miller/Van Dyke) 50-1
5. Improbable (Baffert/I. Ortiz) 6-1

6. Vekoma (Weaver/Castellano) 20-1
7. Maximum Security (Ja. Servis/L. Saez) 10-1
8. Tacitus (Mott/J. Ortiz) 10-1
9. Plus Que Parfait (Walsh/R. Santana) 30-1
10. Cutting Humor (Pletcher/Lanerie) 30-1

11. Haikal (McLaughlin/Maragh) 30-1
13. Code of Honor (McGaughey/Velazquez) 15-1
14. Win Win Win (Trombetta/Pimental) 15-1
15. Master Fencer (Tsunoda/Leparoux) 50-1
16. Game Winner (Baffert/Rosario) 5-1

17. Roadster (Baffert/Geroux) 6-1
18. Long Range Toddy (Asmussen/Court) 30-1
19. Spinoff (Pletcher/M. Franco) 30-1
20. Country House (Mott/Prat) 30-1
21. Bodexpress (Delgado/Landeros) 30-1

[Kasept]

[Kasept]

2019 PACE QUADRANTS WITH JAMES SCULLY

ON

1-Vekoma
2-Maximum Security
3-War of Will
4-Grat Magician
5-Spinoff


NEAR

6-Bodexpress
7-Improbable
8-Tax
9-Roadster
10-By My Standards


STALK

11-Game Winner
12-Long Range Toddy
13-Tacitus
14-Code of Honor
15-Cutting Humor


OFF

16-Win Win Win
17-Plus Que Parfait
18-Haikel
19-Country House
20-Master Fencer

[moses]

Poor Mark Casse. Setback in the Louisiana Derby and now drawing the 1 post.

[knickslions2]

Post positions seem fair for most. Time to get to work!!

[tector]

1-War of Will (War Front), Mark Casse, Tyler Gaffalione, 20-1
2-Tax (Arch), Danny Gargan, Junior Alvarado, 20-1
3-By My Standards (Goldencents), Bret Calhoun, Gabriel Saez, 20-1
4-Gray Magician (Graydar), Peter Miller, Drayden Van Dyke, 50-1
5-Improbable (City Zip), Bob Baffert, Irad Ortiz Jr., 6-1
6-Vekoma (Candy Ride), George Weaver, Javier Castellano, 20-1
7-Maximum Security (New Year's Day), Jason Servis, Luis Saez, 10-1
8-Tacitus (Tapit) , William Mott, Jose Ortiz, 10-1
9-Plus Que Parfait (Point of Entry), Brandan Walsh, Ricardo Santana Jr., 30-1
10-Cutting Humor (First Samurai), Todd Pletcher, Corey Lanerie, 30-1
11-Haikal (Daaher), Kiaran McLaughlin, Rajiv Maragh, 30-1
12-Omaha Beach (War Front), Richard Mandella, Mike Smith, 4-1
13-Code of Honor (Noble Mission), Shug McGaughey, John Velazquez, 15-1
14-Win Win Win (Hat Trick), Michael Trombetta, Julian Pimentel, 15-1
15-Master Fencer (Just a Way), Koichi Tsunoda, 50-1
16-Game Winner (Candy Ride), Bob Baffert, Joel Rosario, 5-1
17-Roadster (Quality Road), Bob Baffert, Florent Geroux, 6-1
18-Long Range Toddy (Take Charge Indy), Steve Asmussen, Jon Court, 30-1
19-Spinoff (Hard Spun), Todd Pletcher, Manny Franco, 30-1
20-Country House (Lookin At Lucky), William Mott, Flavien Prat, 30-1

[cal828]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Post positions seem fair for most. Time to get to work!!

Interesting that Baffert gets the 17 post for Roadster. Every year it seems that there is some historical precedent or "curse" to overcome like the unraced at 2 curse or the curse of the BC Juvenile winner or the NY Bred curse or some such. Maybe this year's curse is the 17 hole curse which I think is the only post that has not produced a winner. I don't particularly like Roadster or dislike him, but as we all know, it's hazardous to your financial health to leave Baffert or Pletcher or Chad Brown(Thank God he doesn't have 2 or 3 in this race) out of your picks.

[Kasept]

Overnight: https://www.equibase.com/premium/eqb...C-CD-20190504D

[moses]

I know Steve and some others like Win Win Win but him at 15-1 when Vekoma is 20-1 just seems disrespectful.

[LITF]

Originally Posted by Kasept

2019 PACE QUADRANTS WITH JAMES SCULLY

ON

1-Vekoma
2-Maximum Security
3-Omaha Beach
4-War of Will
5-Improbable


NEAR

6-Gray Magician
7-Spinoff
8-Tax
9-Roadster
10-By My Standards


STALK

11-Game Winner
12-Long Range Toddy
13-Tacitus
14-Code of Honor
15-Cutting Humor


OFF

16-Win Win Win
17-Plus Que Parfait
18-Haikel
19-Country House
20-Master Fencer

War of Will has to be sent now, right? I am going to handicap this race with him on the lead, Maximum Security 2nd and Vekoma 3rd. Think the pace will be faster than originally thought.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Kasept

2019 PACE QUADRANTS WITH JAMES SCULLY

ON

1-Vekoma
2-Maximum Security
3-Omaha Beach
4-War of Will
5-Improbable

Is there information outside the PPs that suggests that Improbable is suddenly a speed horse?

Thus far he's only been better than 4th once at the first point of call in any of his races (that was the Los Al Futurity where he was 3rd early after half the field was wiped out on the first turn) and he's never been within 2 lengths of the leader either.

To top it off, he hasn't been in any races with an exceeding fast early pace.

Maybe Bob Baffert has stated he's going to the front?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Is there information outside the PPs that suggests that Improbable is suddenly a speed horse?

Thus far he's only been better than 4th once at the first point of call in any of his races (that was the Los Al Futurity where he was 3rd early after half the field was wiped out on the first turn) and he's never been within 2 lengths of the leader either.

To top it off, he hasn't been in any races with an exceeding fast early pace.

Maybe Bob Baffert has stated he's going to the front?

Agreed. His is likely to be WELL off the pace, and likely in a similar spot as Game Winner....unless some major change is expected.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Is there information outside the PPs that suggests that Improbable is suddenly a speed horse? Thus far he's only been better than 4th once at the first point of call in any of his races (that was the Los Al Futurity where he was 3rd early after half the field was wiped out on the first turn) and he's never been within 2 lengths of the leader either. To top it off, he hasn't been in any races with an exceeding fast early pace.

Maybe Bob Baffert has stated he's going to the front?

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Agreed. His is likely to be WELL off the pace, and likely in a similar spot as Game Winner....unless some major change is expected.

It's being suggested/anticipated because of how eager he's been in his works.

[moses]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Is there information outside the PPs that suggests that Improbable is suddenly a speed horse?

Thus far he's only been better than 4th once at the first point of call in any of his races (that was the Los Al Futurity where he was 3rd early after half the field was wiped out on the first turn) and he's never been within 2 lengths of the leader either.

To top it off, he hasn't been in any races with an exceeding fast early pace.

Maybe Bob Baffert has stated he's going to the front?

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Agreed. His is likely to be WELL off the pace, and likely in a similar spot as Game Winner....unless some major change is expected.

He was pretty close to a fast pace in the Street Sense. Who else is clearly faster than him? I suspect he’ll be easily in the 5-10 range, maybe higher up as I’m counting War of Will out of the early pace now.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Kasept

It's being suggested/anticipated because of how eager he's been in his works.

Thought that might be one of the reasons but he's always been a forward work horse so not sure its particularly solid evidence of a change in tactics.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by moses

He was pretty close to a fast pace in the Street Sense. Who else is clearly faster than him? I suspect he’ll be easily in the 5-10 range, maybe higher up as I’m counting War of Will out of the early pace now.

Long Range Toddy (twice) and Omaha Beach both outfooted him early in his Oaklawn starts. Vekoma, Spinoff, War of Will, and Maximum Security have all displayed front-running speed. Arguably even Tax and Gray Magician in specific starts have shown more early speed than Improbable.

In the Street Sense, Improbable was 6th early and despite progressing to two turns after that race, showed less speed in subsequent starts. I guess if you want to say that he prefers Churchill Downs to other tracks to the point that he has more early speed I guess that's a possibility, however remote.

Why is War of Will out of the early pace with the rail draw?

[moses]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Long Range Toddy (twice) and Omaha Beach both outfooted him early in his Oaklawn starts. Vekoma, Spinoff, War of Will, and Maximum Security have all displayed front-running speed. Arguably even Tax and Gray Magician in specific starts have shown more early speed than Improbable.

In the Street Sense, Improbable was 6th early and despite progressing to two turns after that race, showed less speed in subsequent starts. I guess if you want to say that he prefers Churchill Downs to other tracks to the point that he has more early speed I guess that's a possibility, however remote.

Why is War of Will out of the early pace with the rail draw?

I think there is enough speed to the right of him that he’ll have trouble getting out clean before the rail comes in on him. I also have never really thought he was that fast out of the gate. But maybe I’m wrong.

On Improbable, fair enough. Not sure if he’ll be at the front or not but I like him to be close enough.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by moses

I think there is enough speed to the right of him that he’ll have trouble getting out clean before the rail comes in on him. I also have never really thought he was that fast out of the gate. But maybe I’m wrong.

He was fairly sharp from the gate in all 3 FG starts although he stumbled slightly in the Lecomte and lost his hind end after a handful of strides in the Louisiana Derby.

At any rate, Mark Casse said he plans to send him straight to the lead in the post-draw quotes. However it should be noted that Tax's trainer (post 2) plans on shifting over to the rail whether War of Will breaks or not.

On Improbable, fair enough. Not sure if he’ll be at the front or not but I like him to be close enough.

I would prefer if Improbable showed more early foot, if for no other reason than his riders wouldn't be compelled to make the silly middle moves he's made in his last two.

However, at this stage, I think it's a moot point. Considering his gate antics last out, the bad rides in both his starts this year, and the pummeling he took in the stretch in the Arkansas Derby, my guess is that Improbable has busted a gut and will be a non-factor in the Derby.

Hopefully I'm wrong--because he's talented--but if he does tank hopefully we can at least look forward to a strong 4yo campaign a la Collected in 2017.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by moses

I know Steve and some others like Win Win Win but him at 15-1 when Vekoma is 20-1 just seems disrespectful.

I think it’s because he looks like a cross between a Jesus lizard 🦎 and the Pampelmousse when he runs. You should be glad about 20-1. What’s better than your derby hoss being a good price.

[MichiganMattA]

The way Roadster popped the gate in his work on 4/20 makes me think Bob has a plan. We'll see how far he can go.