Weekend Stakes Beyers

[Kasept]

PRX Pennsylvania Derby (G2): Connect 103 (Curlin) C. Brown/J. Castellano
PRX Cotillion S (G1): Songbird 99 (Medaglia d'Oro) J. Hollendorfer/M. Smith
PRX Gallant Bob S (G3): Noholdingback Bear 101 (Put It Back) M. De Paulo/E. Da Silva
PRX Pa Derby Champion S: Cyrus Alexander 86 (Medaglia d'Oro) J. Hollendorfer/R. Bejarano
PRX Alphabet Soup H : Granny's Kitten 92 (Kitten's Joy) M. Maker/F. Geroux

RP Oklahoma Derby (G3): Texas Chrome 96 (Grasshopper) J. Caldwell/C. McMahon
RP Remington Park Oaks: Unbridled Mo 93 (Uncle Mo) T. Pletcher/J. Velazquez
RP Governor's Cup S: Chocopologie 92 (Candy Ride-ARG) P. Devereux/C. Hernandez
RP David M. Vance Sprint S: Ivan Fallunovalot 94 (Valid Expectations) W. Howard/L. Wade
RP Remington Green S: Taghleeb 95 (Hard Spun) M. Maker/J. Rosario
RP Ricks Memorial S: Penguini 82 (Omega Code) C. Stuart/G. Franco
RP Kip Deville S: Cool Arrow 73 (Into Mischief) J. Sharp/J. Rosario
RP Flashy Lady S: Moment Is Right 85 (Medaglia d'Oro) S. Asmussen/F. Geroux
RP Red Earth S: Ibaka 87 (Uncle Abbie) W. Calhoun/C. McMahon
RP Bob Barry Memorial S: Gianna's Dream 81 (Twirling Candy) M. Maker/J. Rosario

WO Ontario Colleen S (G3): Caren 86 (Society's Chairman) M. De Paulo/J. Campbell
WO Durham Cup S (G3): Are You Kidding Me 101 (Run Away and Hide) R. Attfield/A. Garcia
WO Classy 'n Smart S: Sweater Weather 88 (Milwaukee Brew) R. Tiller/J. Bridgmohan
WO Kingarvie S: Jurojin 62 (Giant Gizmo) H. Ladouceur/L. Contreras

BEL Noble Damsel S (G3): Mrs McDougal 101 (Medaglia d'Oro) C. Brown/I. Ortiz
BEL John Hettinger S : Fourstar Crook 96 (Freud) C. Brown/J. Castellano
BEL Ashley T. Cole S: Kharafa 100 (Kitalpha) T. Hills/A. Gallardo

LRC Los Alamitos Derby S (G2): Accelerate 90 (Lookin At Lucky) J. Sadler/T. Baze

LRL Commonwealth Turf Cup S (G2): Blacktype-FR 101 (Dunkerque-FR) C. Clement/T. McCarthy
LRL Commonwealth Derby (G2): Deeply Undervalued 91 (Kitten's Joy) C. Brown/M. Franco
LRL Commonwealth Oaks (G3): My Impression 91 (Sky Mesa) C. McGaughey/J. Ortiz
LRL Punch Line S: Moon River 86 (Bluegrass Cat) B. Walsh/F. Lynch
LRL Oakley S: Rapid Rhythm 79 (Successful Appeal) M. Stidham/T. McCarthy
LRL Jamestown S: Lime House Louie 63 (Limehouse) F. Stites/G. Saez
LRL Bert Allen S: Rose Brier 85 (Mizzen Mast) J. Cibelli/T. McCarthy
LRL Brookmeade S: Skipalute 82 (Midnight Lute) J. Kimmel/J. Ortiz

CD Dogwood S: Mines and Magic 82 (Mineshaft) V. Oliver/R. Albarado

LAD A. L. (Red) Erwin S: Rock N Sake 75 (Half Ours) V. Vidrine/J. Melancon
LAD Elge Rasberry S: My Queen Olivia 72 (Half Ours) P. Mouton/J. Guzman

TDN Catlaunch S: Eightthehardway 70 (Parents' Reward) R. Vickers/L. Gonzalez

[knickslions2]

D oro horses everwhere

[taxicab]

Interesting number for Songbird[99],so the lifetime 11 for 11(7 Grade 1's) winner still hasn't Beyered higher than Hit It Once More (102/New York Derby/Finger Lakes) this year.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Interesting number for Songbird[99],so the lifetime 11 for 11(7 Grade 1's) winner still hasn't Beyered higher than Hit It Once More (102/New York Derby/Finger Lakes) this year.

And the 101 is probably a few points high to boot

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Interesting number for Songbird[99],so the lifetime 11 for 11(7 Grade 1's) winner still hasn't Beyered higher than Hit It Once More (102/New York Derby/Finger Lakes) this year.

And people defend her like she's this super horse.

[Pants II]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

And people defend her like she's this super horse.

It's not that it's just her competition are plugs. You can't will a horse to beat her, RHT. The crop is absolutely abysmal and it's unfair she gets criticized and doubted when there isn't a horse she's run against the past two races that is worth a bottle of piss.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

And the 101 is probably a few points high to boot

Songbird's BSFs are comparable to Beholder's at 3. She only threw up a triple digit Beyer in her first start against older horses. Even now at 6, Beholder tends to register Beyers in the 90s while often winning in similar fashion to Songbird, often geared down.

As far as dominant 3yo fillies go, it would be interesting to see other champion 3yo filly BSFs in the recent past. Rachel Alexandra and Silverbulletday were clearly faster at 3 based on BSFs. They were also mere shadows of their former selves at 4. I think Banshee Breeze was faster. I don't think Sky Beauty consistently Beyered over 100, nor Blind Luck. Untapable threw up 2 big numbers in the Fair Grounds and Kentucky Oaks but was otherwise stuck in the high 90s the rest of her career.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

And the 101 is probably a few points high to boot

I know you're one of the top figure makers in the game Freddy, but you might want to check with Nick on that number.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by freddymo

And the 101 is probably a few points high to boot

The 101 is a few points high in my opinion, but the 102 for Hit It Once More was proven quite clearly in every subsequent start for the field to be accurate.

And full disclosure, I made that FL figure.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Songbird's BSFs are comparable to Beholder's at 3. She only threw up a triple digit Beyer in her first start against older horses. Even now at 6, Beholder tends to register Beyers in the 90s while often winning in similar fashion to Songbird, often geared down.

As far as dominant 3yo fillies go, it would be interesting to see other champion 3yo filly BSFs in the recent past. Rachel Alexandra and Silverbulletday were clearly faster at 3 based on BSFs. They were also mere shadows of their former selves at 4. I think Banshee Breeze was faster. I don't think Sky Beauty consistently Beyered over 100, nor Blind Luck. Untapable threw up 2 big numbers in the Fair Grounds and Kentucky Oaks but was otherwise stuck in the high 90s the rest of her career.

I think comparing her with Rachel at this point is fruitless and off putting Songbird has earned better then to be compared with a filly she isn't. Rachel too date was in completely different league not because of Fig's but because of the competition he had beaten in fast races. Connects have done everything right, filly has been way better then her competition.
I don't think SB wins the Distaff, I think hitting the board would be a heck of an accomplishment.

Songbird's campaign has been extraordinary and I could really care what her figs have been other then for handicapping and betting. I haven't seen many better 3 year old fillies that's for dam sure, faster not necessarily better.

[Pants II]

I was going to say Rachel is a "she" but it's "the current year" so maybe that changed.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I think comparing her with Rachel at this point is fruitless and off putting Songbird has earned better then to be compared with a filly she isn't. Rachel too date was in completely different league not because of Fig's but because of the competition he had beaten in fast races. Connects have done everything right, filly has been way better then her competition.
I don't think SB wins the Distaff, I think hitting the board would be a heck of an accomplishment.

Songbird's campaign has been extraordinary and I could really care what her figs have been other then for handicapping and betting. I haven't seen many better 3 year old fillies that's for dam sure, faster not necessarily better.

Explain the last 4 words? How does that work?

[Indian Charlie]

What have you done!?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Explain the last 4 words? How does that work?

We all have seen fillies run bigger figs then SB best too date they arent better then she IMO

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by freddymo

We all have seen fillies run bigger figs then SB best too date they arent better then she IMO

Icon Project would beat her 10/10 times at 9f and up.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Icon Project would beat her 10/10 times at 9f and up.

I think Icon project was talented as well but be real I think she won 4 times and did she even race 10 times, bit of a laimo. I am not as smart as you I cant go to a filly's best race ever and expect her to run it 10 straight times in a row when she could only do it once or twice in her illustrious 10 race career when it was for real.. in fantasy hypothetical land were a laimo reproduces her single best effort 10 straight times MAYBE she beats Songbird. No Doubt Icon Projects was OK

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I think Icon project was talented as well but be real I think she won 4 times and did she even race 10 times, bit of a laimo. I am not as smart as you I cant go to a filly's best race ever and expect her to run it 10 straight times in a row when she could only do it once or twice in her illustrious 10 race career when it was for real.. in fantasy hypothetical land were a laimo reproduces her single best effort 10 straight times MAYBE she beats Songbird. No Doubt Icon Projects was OK

Never mind she was a 4yo, both main track wins were on off tracks, and she strained a tendon in her first dirt start that ultimately led to her retirement before the season's end.

[King Glorious]

I'm not the expert you guys are but I have seen some horses over the years that go ballad out every time and others that do enough to win. I certainly won't say for a fact that Songbird would run faster if required to because we don't know. It's just my belief that if it was needed, she has more to offer. I stopped using Beyer numbers years ago so I couldn't tell how she compares on that level to others of the past. It's also clear that her competition is garbage and hasn't pushed her to have to run faster. Can't wait til the Distaff to get more answers. My money is on her to win.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'm not the expert you guys are but I have seen some horses over the years that go ballad out every time and others that do enough to win. I certainly won't say for a fact that Songbird would run faster if required to because we don't know. It's just my belief that if it was needed, she has more to offer. I stopped using Beyer numbers years ago so I couldn't tell how she compares on that level to others of the past. It's also clear that her competition is garbage and hasn't pushed her to have to run faster. Can't wait til the Distaff to get more answers. My money is on her to win.

These mysterious horses that run just fast enough to win are known as unicorns.

They don't exist outside of the minds of people that want horses they like to be faster than they actually are.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

These mysterious horses that run just fast enough to win are known as unicorns.

They don't exist outside of the minds of people that want horses they like to be faster than they actually are.

Ok. I wish I was allowed to debate or disagree with you but I learned my lesson before.