Weekend Stakes Beyers

[Kasept]

FG Lecomte S (G3): Enforceable 89 (Tapit) M. Casse/J. Leparoux
FG Silverbulletday S: Finite 80 (Munnings) S. Asmussen/R. Santana
FG Colonel E. R. Bradley S: Dontblamerocket 98 (Blame) N. Casse/J. Leparoux
FG Krantz Memorial S: Quebec 84 (Into Mischief) J. Sharp/A. Beschizza
FG Louisiana S (G3): Silver Dust 93 (Tapit) W. Calhoun/J. Gilligan
FG Duncan F. Kenner S: Bobby's Wicked One 103 (Speightstown) A. Stall/M. Mena
FG 3yo ALW (8.5f): Blackberry Wine 94 (Oxbow) J. Sharp/A. Beschizza
FG 3yo MSW (6f): Echo Town 92 (Speightstown) S. Asmussen/J. Talamo

AQU Toboggan S (G3): Mind Control 98 (Stay Thirsty) G. Sacco/J. Velazquez
AQU Franklin Square S: A Freud of Mama 80 (Freud) M. Maker/J. Vargas
AQU Ladies H: Bellera 83 (Bernardini) T. Pletcher/J. Lezcano
AQU Interborough S: Saguaro Row 87 (Union Rags) M. Stidham/J. Lezcano

SA Megahertz S (G3): Carressa - (Uncle Mo) J. Shirreffs/V. Espinoza
SA Astra S (G3): Ms Peintour 90 (Paynter) B. Koriner/B. Blanc
SA 3yo MSW (6.5f): Nadal 98 (Blame) B. Baffert/J. C. Diaz Jr.
SA California Cup Oaks: Warren's Showtime 72 (Clubhouse Ride) C. Lewis/J. Velez
SA California Cup Derby: Fast Enough 76 (Eddington) R. Becerra/T. Pereira
SA Unusual Heat Turf Classic S: Wound Tight 92 (Coil) R. Hess/A. Cedillo
SA Sunshine Millions F&M Turf Sprint S: Stealthediamonds 94 (Unusual Heat) M. Puype/A. Delgadillo
SA California Cup Sprint S: Fashionably Fast - (Lucky Pulpit) D. Pederson/T. Pereira

GP Sunshine Millions Classic S: Noble Drama 90 (Gone Astray) D. Fawkes/E. Jaramillo
GP Sunshine Millions Turf S: March to the Arch 96 (Arch) M. Casse/T. Gaffalione
GP Sunshine Millions F&M Turf S: Starship Jubilee 92 (Indy Wind) K. Attard/J. Castellano
GP Sunshine Millions Sprint S: Extravagant Kid 99 (Kiss the Kid) B. Walsh/T. Gaffalione

TAM Pasco S: Liam's Lucky Charm 91 (Khozan) R. Nicks/E. Zayas
TAM Gasparilla S: Two Sixty 78 (Uncaptured) M. Casse/E. Zayas
TAM Wayward Lass S: Jehozacat 83 (Tapit) A. Delacour/D. Centeno

LRL Fire Plug S: Honor the Fleet 95 (To Honor and Serve) L. Albertrani/A. Cintron
LRL What A Summer S: Victim of Love 83 (Speightstown) T. Beattie/W. Hamilton
LRL Jennings S: Alwaysmining 91 (Stay Thirsty) K. Rubley/J. Pimentel
LRL Geisha S: Artful Splatter 74 (Bandbox) K. Magee/A. Cintron

SUN LaSenora S: Two Stepper 60 (Attila's Storm) T. Fincher/R. Chirinos

TP Forego S: Nun the Less 88 (Candy Ride-ARG) C. Contreras/R. Prescott

[Kasept]

98 for Nadal debut Sunday..

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by Kasept

98 for Nadal debut Sunday..

That was impressive

[moses]

Originally Posted by Kasept

98 for Nadal debut Sunday..

Originally Posted by knickslions2

That was impressive

Nadal looked great. You’ve got to feel bad for Baffert. Having so many good 3YOs forces him to either run against himself for purses and Derby qualifying points or ship the horses out.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by moses

Nadal looked great. You’ve got to feel bad for Baffert. Having so many good 3YOs forces him to either run against himself for purses and Derby qualifying points or ship the horses out.

I feel horrible for him.

[Dahoss]

I feel bad for the other trainers struggling to make ends meet because 1 trainer has so many good horses

[Konk]

Baffert is Brown West.

[Kasept]

Baffert wasn't in the Top 50 in number of individual starters last year (116). If the argument is that he gets 'all the best horses', as judged by expensive sales prospects, that's a fairly recent development. But he's never had a factory operation.

Trainers with more than 150 individual starters in '19..

Steven M. Asmussen 612
Karl Broberg 544
Mark E. Casse 320
Michael J. Maker 312
Brad H. Cox 311
Robertino Diodoro 310
Chad C. Brown 301
Todd A. Pletcher 269
Joe Sharp 231
Linda Rice 218
Jonathan Wong 215
Jeremiah C. Englehart 202
Jorge Navarro 199
Jamie Ness 198
Michael Stidham 194
Rudy R. Rodriguez 193
Claudio A. Gonzalez 188
Doug F. O'Neill 181
Scott A. Lake 174
Jason Servis 171
William I. Mott 164
Thomas M. Amoss 163
Wesley A. Ward 159
Norman McKnight 158
H. Graham Motion 157
Frank Lucarelli 151

[Kasept]

AQU Interborough S: Saguaro Row 87 (Union Rags) M. Stidham/J. Lezcano

SA Megahertz S (G3): Carressa - (Uncle Mo) J. Shirreffs/V. Espinoza

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Baffert wasn't in the Top 50 in number of individual starters last year (116). If the argument is that he gets 'all the best horses', as judged by expensive sales prospects, that's a fairly recent development. But he's never had a factory operation.

Trainers with more than 150 individual starters in '19..

Steven M. Asmussen 612
Karl Broberg 544
Mark E. Casse 320
Michael J. Maker 312
Brad H. Cox 311
Robertino Diodoro 310
Chad C. Brown 301
Todd A. Pletcher 269
Joe Sharp 231
Linda Rice 218
Jonathan Wong 215
Jeremiah C. Englehart 202
Jorge Navarro 199
Jamie Ness 198
Michael Stidham 194
Rudy R. Rodriguez 193
Claudio A. Gonzalez 188
Doug F. O'Neill 181
Scott A. Lake 174
Jason Servis 171
William I. Mott 164
Thomas M. Amoss 163
Wesley A. Ward 159
Norman McKnight 158
H. Graham Motion 157
Frank Lucarelli 151

This list does not speak to the concentration of the best stock being in the hands of so few

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

This list does not speak to the concentration of the best stock being in the hands of so few

Related, but different topic.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Baffert wasn't in the Top 50 in number of individual starters last year (116). If the argument is that he gets 'all the best horses', as judged by expensive sales prospects, that's a fairly recent development. But he's never had a factory operation.

Come on Steve. He’s the poster child for the rich get richer in this sport. I don’t fault owners for sending horses to him. The results speak for themselves. But there are a lot of really good trainers that don’t get the stock he gets EVERY single year and has gotten EVERY single year for decades.

My comment had more to do with the notion that someone feels bad for him for having to run his horses against each other. Maybe it was tongue in cheek but it didn’t appear that way. He has to run his horses against each other because he has so many quality horses.

[moses]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Come on Steve. He’s the poster child for the rich get richer in this sport. I don’t fault owners for sending horses to him. The results speak for themselves. But there are a lot of really good trainers that don’t get the stock he gets EVERY single year and has gotten EVERY single year for decades.

My comment had more to do with the notion that someone feels bad for him for having to run his horses against each other. Maybe it was tongue in cheek but it didn’t appear that way. He has to run his horses against each other because he has so many quality horses.

Just to clarify - I was definitely joking with my comment.

Baffert is a great trainer...but you’re right that there are many other great trainers that don’t have the opportunities that he has. I don’t fault the owners either. It’s just the way things are.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Come on Steve. He’s the poster child for the rich get richer in this sport. I don’t fault owners for sending horses to him. The results speak for themselves. But there are a lot of really good trainers that don’t get the stock he gets EVERY single year and has gotten EVERY single year for decades.

As Baffert said to me in an interview recently when asked about the flow of premium talent, "I worked my whole career to get to this spot".

It is not true that Baffert received elite stock 'for decades'. He never had the volume that Pletcher or even Mott was receiving and the horses he was getting were relatively modest priced ($100,000-$250,000) and quality homebreds. It's only in the last 7-10 years that he started to receive high ticket sales prospects.

Here are the Top 20 horses of Baffert's career based on earnings:

Arrogate (2014 KEE YRLG) $560,000 (Juddmonte)
American Pharoah (2014 2YO) Homebred (Zayat)
Captain Steve (1998 FT JUL YRLG) $150,000 (Pegram)
Game On Dude (KEE 2008 YRLG) $210,000-RNA (Diamond Pride/Lanni+)
West Coast (2015 SEP YRLG) $425,000 (West)
Hoppertunity (2012 SEP YRLG) $300,000 (Pegram+)
Bayern (2013 TIM 2YO) $300,000 (Shah)
Silver Charm (OBS SPR 2YO) $100,000 (Lewis)
Point Given (2000 2YO) Homebred (Thoroughbred Corp.)
Justify (2016 KEE YRLG) $500,000 (China Horse Club+)
Secret Circle (2011 OBS MAR) $165,000 (Pegram+)
McKinzie (2016 KEE SEP YRLG) $170,000 (Pegram+)
Lookin At Lucky (2009 KEE APR 2YO) $475,000 (Pegram+)
Real Quiet (1996 KEE YRLG) $17,000 (Pegram)
Congaree (2000 YRLG) Homebred (Stonerside)
War Emblem (2000 KEE YRLG) Private Purchase (Thoroughbred Corp.)
Silverbulletday (1997 FT JUL YRLG) $155,000 (Pegram)
Indian Blessing (2007 2YO) Homebred (Earnhardt)
Collected (2015 OBS MAR 2YO) $170,000 (Speedway)
General Challenge (1998 2YO) Homebred (Mabee)

[blackthroatedwind]

I think your argument about Bob is fair in many ways, Steve, but just listing the successful horse's prices ( and you can't just say American Pharoah was a homebred, and perhaps there are others in this category, without saying their potential value at public auction....as he RNA'd for around $300K ) without telling us all the prices of the horses he got, successful and unsuccessful. It's not just about the horses a trainer does well with, right?

[blackthroatedwind]

You should also give the purchase price, I feel like it was $1 million, for War Emblem....right?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think your argument about Bob is fair in many ways, Steve, but just listing the successful horse's prices ( and you can't just say American Pharoah was a homebred, and perhaps there are others in this category, without saying their potential value at public auction....as he RNA'd for around $300K ) without telling us all the prices of the horses he got, successful and unsuccessful. It's not just about the horses a trainer does well with, right?

The top earners were the most succinct and available to research. And given the spread of years involved, feels like a good snapshot. If you look at Baffert's stakes winners from the period, I think they'll tell the same story.

Re: Pharoah RNA price, it can be balanced by Pioneerof the Nile's stud fee ($17,500) at the time. Zayat actually retained a good portion of PoTN so the cover came out of his supply of seasons.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You should also give the purchase price, I feel like it was $1 million, for War Emblem....right?

Couldn't remember. Sounds right. Maybe more even.

[Dahoss]

It’s 2020 right? If he’s been getting really good stock since the late 90’s that is decades.

When you train for the owners he does and has you get elite stock, whether it is homebreds or moderately/ high priced auction horses. Again, his results speak for themselves. I understand why he gets what he gets.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The top earners were the most succinct and available to research. And given the spread of years involved, feels like a good snapshot. If you look at Baffert's stakes winners from the period, I think they'll tell the same story.

Re: Pharoah RNA price, it can be balanced by Pioneerof the Nile's stud fee ($17,500) at the time. Zayat actually retained a good portion of PoTN so the cover came out of his supply of seasons.




Couldn't remember. Sounds right. Maybe more even.

I don't agree. I think a fair snapshot is the total price/value of a trainer's crop, and then see how they fared. Plus, since we are discussing the opportunity that Bob gets annually, isn't it fair to discuss everything he received, and not just the horses he was successful with?

I also understand that virtually no trainer will appear "successful" under this microscope, and you know I have great respect for Bob, but I still think it's worth looking at the whole picture as it applies to the conversation.

[freddymo]

Steve, Bob also told you that West sent him 12 or 14 of his best 2 years olds and let him test drive them and keep the ones he wanted...Baffert told you he kept 2 or 3. Think about how many guys would send back 10 horses he didn't even want to try with from an owner as wealthy as West.

Nobody is not saying he did not prove he was worthy of such riches or didn't earn the luxury he has but this guy also tells people its about the trophies, not the money and when he bombs out on a 1 mil two-year-old in training prospect it doesn't phase him. he reloads every year with the very best prospects and or the hardship or an Earnhardt homebred out of a daughter of Indian Blessing.

He is great radio and the best dirt trainer ever that said he is playing craps with loaded dice.