Pyro

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Awfully unimpressive in victory over a mediocre field.

Proud Spell ran 2/5ths faster at the same distance- though she did have the situation of a lifetime trip.

Pyro got shuffled a bit but didn't appear to have a big excuse otherwise.

[King Glorious]

I was thinking that same thing. Pyro is a good horse. I reluctantly have to admit that. But the time comparison is interesting. Last time, it was said that the girls ran faster because of the pace. This time, the half in the Derby was faster than the pace in the Oaks. The final time was .43 slower than the girls. On the bright side, it was nearly a full second last time so maybe the boys are closing the gap.

[jms62]

Proud Spell had the advantage of being in a 2 horse match race with a speedster. Of course the fractions will be faster.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Give Bravo a real rider n' He and PYRO hit the wire together.What a waste of a mount.Somebody good gunna want this mount,and I hope they get it.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

He'll do well vs. War Pass when they meet again.....2nd best, once again!

[TitanSooner]

let's just not have the triple crown races this year.

jeez

[Travis Stone]

Not the performance I was expecting...

This crop just continues to look weaker and weaker.

[miraja2]

I guess I was more impressed with him than all of you guys seem to be, although the crop as a whole continues to look poor. The time was obviously not great compared to what Proud Spell did in the previous race, but Pyro ran into some trouble in the second half of the race and overcame it to win easily.
As far as I am concerned he was far more impressive than Proud Spell throughout the last 2.5 furlongs of the race, despite not getting ideal fractions to run into.....again.
He clearly isn't great at this point, but he seems pretty good to me.

[Travis Stone]

Pyro sprints away from a MCL in the last 16th while every other horse is gasping. Combine that with the time... eeek.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by miraja2

As far as I am concerned he was far more impressive than Proud Spell throughout the last 2.5 furlongs of the race

He was more impressive than her overall - even though he ran a few lengths slower.

Proud Spell will never get a better situation than she got today. With a real fast pace to set Pyro up - he could certainly run a lot better than his softish win today.

[ceejay]

His running style will make it tough in a field of 20.........

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by jms62

Proud Spell had the advantage of being in a 2 horse match race with a speedster. Of course the fractions will be faster.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the quarter and half of the Derby were FASTER than the Oaks.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Pyro sprints away from a MCL in the last 16th while every other horse is gasping. Combine that with the time... eeek.

And let's not forget the third place horse, trying dirt for the first time.

I think it's fashionable to say that Pyro has improved since the fall. I'm not so sure. I think he was better than these horses in the fall and he's still better than them. I feel like it's impossible to tell how much he's improved. I don't think anything more can be taken from this race than can be taken from War Pass' race or from Big Brown's race. Each situation has been one good horse against vastly inferior horses and the good horse doing what he's supposed to do. Majestic Warrior, Tale of Ekati are "name" horses so it seemed like this was a deep field today but under the conditions they were put under, they had no shot at all to give their best and even their best might not have suited the conditions of today being that neither of them has proven they can win past 7f or around two-turns.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ceejay

His running style will make it tough in a field of 20.........

The horses who raced 19th and 20th early on in last years Derby - finished 1st and 4th.

4th place finisher Imawildandcrazyguy just ran 3rd in a small stake at Tampa today.

All things being equal, I'd prefer a closing style in the Derby.

closers win almost half of the KY derbies, stalkers take about 1/2 the rest. So all things being equal you'd take a closer. All things being equal. It seems that the various running styles are about equallydistributed but that's just a rough count based on last couple runnings of the derby.

OTOH, some running styles like stalkers have to turn into closers in the derby because of all the traffic. Fu Peg or Charismatic might be examples of this.

All in all one should not dismiss a horse for the derby on the basis of his being a closer. Being a closer is a plus.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

All things being equal, I'd prefer a closing style in the Derby.

I had this same conversation with a friend of mine today. The chug-up finishers in the Derby are often great to wheel underneath at good prices:

Bluegrass Cat 30-1, Jazil 24-1, Steppenwolfer 16-1 in '06, Limehouse 41-1 in '04 etc.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The horses who raced 19th and 20th early on in last years Derby - finished 1st and 4th.

4th place finisher Imawildandcrazyguy just ran 3rd in a small stake at Tampa today.

All things being equal, I'd prefer a closing style in the Derby.

Excellent point and another step in the road to convincing people that they needn't be overly concerned with closers in the Derby as only around three of the last 17 were won by horses on the pace.

NT

[sumitas]

I thought that most of the Derby winners were within 3 lengths of the lead at the first turn ?
Street Sense is an obvious exception to that.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by sumitas

I thought that most of the Derby winners were within 3 lengths of the lead at the first turn ?
Street Sense is an obvious exception to that.

maybe final turn

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

maybe final turn

What's one turn between friends?