Manny...

Cannon Shell · #1 10-15-2008, 05:24 PM

If I hear one more person say Manny is the greatest right handed hitter in baseball history I will scream. He is not even the best right handed hitter in the National League, now.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ramirma02.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pujolal01.shtml

declansharbor · #2 10-15-2008, 05:42 PM

He's the best since Joe Dimaggio, duh!

However, he is an all time great. The guy can take some pitches long that no one else can even make contact with. He's ALOT better than I ever gaVe him credit for.

Cannon Shell · #3 10-15-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by declansharbor

He's the best since Joe Dimaggio, duh!

However, he is an all time great. The guy can take some pitches long that no one else can even make contact with. He's ALOT better than I ever gaVe him credit for.

Pujols is better

Mortimer · #4 10-15-2008, 05:56 PM

Could .."oh it's just Sara being Sara"...work?

Ah don't thank so.

declansharbor · #5 10-15-2008, 06:05 PM

I'll take Manny and a dab of Lafayette's finest "V" over Pujols.

Seriously though, they are 1 and 1A in my eyes. They both give pitchers nightmares. I'd say Pujols has more 'power', but they are both great avg. hitters.

Manny's year in '99 is unheard of, as is Pujols' '03 campaign. It is ultra-tough to give the nod to either player. I hope Pujols can keep these numbers the rest of his career. That would be sick.

ELA · #6 10-15-2008, 06:06 PM

I'd like to see when all is said and done and the careers of some of these guys are over -- how they ultimately stack up against, let's say, Willie Mays.

BTW, I am sure some of you caught the Costas special with Hank and Willie.

Eric

Rudeboyelvis · #7 10-15-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Pujols is better

David Ortiz, when healthy, is better than both of them.

horseofcourse · #8 10-15-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Pujols is better

I think Pujols needs to play for about 6 more years at a level similar to what his level is right now for that statement to really be true.

Cannon Shell · #9 10-15-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

David Ortiz, when healthy, is better than both of them.

Ortiz is not nearly good as manny and isnt close to Pujols

Cannon Shell · #10 10-15-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I think Pujols needs to play for about 6 more years at a level similar to what his level is right now for that statement to really be true.

8 years isnt enough? He is a better hitter than ramirez period. He outpaces him in every meaningful stat. He is a better pure hitter, scores more, hits more doubles, hit the same amount of HR's and Rbis, strikeouts far less, walks more, is better hitter for average, has a better OBP, a higher slugging percentage and has played in a far weaker hitting park with lesser hitters hitting in front of him and behind him. He is also a tremendous playoff hitter and has never had anything even remotely close to an off year. If it werent for Bonds he would have 4 MVP's to add to this years.

dalakhani · #11 10-15-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

8 years isnt enough? He is a better hitter than ramirez period. He outpaces him in every meaningful stat. He is a better pure hitter, scores more, hits more doubles, hit the same amount of HR's and Rbis, strikeouts far less, walks more, is better hitter for average, has a better OBP, a higher slugging percentage and has played in a far weaker hitting park with lesser hitters hitting in front of him and behind him. He is also a tremendous playoff hitter and has never had anything even remotely close to an off year. If it werent for Bonds he would have 4 MVP's to add to this years.

All of this is true. i dont think that is a slight on Manny though. Pujols has been an incredible player. It will be interesting to see how his elbow holds up.

ateamstupid · #12 10-15-2008, 07:23 PM

Pujols is the best hitter in the game, period. Manny's great, but neither he nor Ortiz are on the same level as Pujols.

horseofcourse · #13 10-15-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

8 years isnt enough? He is a better hitter than ramirez period. He outpaces him in every meaningful stat. He is a better pure hitter, scores more, hits more doubles, hit the same amount of HR's and Rbis, strikeouts far less, walks more, is better hitter for average, has a better OBP, a higher slugging percentage and has played in a far weaker hitting park with lesser hitters hitting in front of him and behind him. He is also a tremendous playoff hitter and has never had anything even remotely close to an off year. If it werent for Bonds he would have 4 MVP's to add to this years.

No it's not enough. Ramirez has hit over .320 4 times in his 30s. Pujols is still 28. Ramirez hit .349 at age 30 and .332 at age 36. There is every chance Pujols will be better in his 30s than Ramirez and from age 21 through age 28 PUjols has compiled better numbers than Ramirez....fine. It's way too early for me to say which one is definitively better. Was Pass was a better two year old than Curlin. Which one is better?? I still think longevity counts for something in both baseball and horse racing. Ramirez has done it at the highest level for 15 years now. Pujols hasn't done that yet. He likely will which is fine. When he does that I'll say he is definitively better. He'll never have better hair than Manny however.

horseofcourse · #14 10-15-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Wow. That was some horse racing analogy too.

It was horrible without question. Albert Pujols was 28 this year. Manny Ramirez had a better year at 28 than Pujols did this year.

ateamstupid · #15 10-15-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

It was horrible without question. Albert Pujols was 28 this year. Manny Ramirez had a better year at 28 than Pujols did this year.

LOL, Pujols hit .357 with 37 and 116. At 28, Manny hit .351 with 38 and 122. To you that's distinctively better? Manny also walked 86 times that year with 117 strikeouts, while this year Pujols walked 104 times with 54 strikeouts.

To me, walks to strikeout ratio is a very underrated statistic when it comes to judging hitters. Pujols hasn't had 70 strikeouts in a season since his rookie year, while Manny has had 100+ in 11 seasons. Even if you want to say their AVG/HR/RBI numbers are similar (which isn't really true), Pujols' ability to always make contact is unmatched by Manny (or just about anyone of his caliber).

Mortimer · #16 10-15-2008, 07:57 PM

Jhonny being Jhonny.

Cannon Shell · #17 10-15-2008, 09:41 PM

Honestly i'm not knocking manny in any way just pointing out the media frenzy that surrounds every guy that acts a little crazy. He is not the greatest righthanded batter right now let alone all time. There are other guys like Hank Aaron, Joe D, Willie Mays, Frank Robinson, Jimmie Foxx, in addition to Pujols who the media seems to have forgotten or worse just doesnt know about or ignores. Manny is a great hitter and you can say he is in the conversation but imo after 8 years Pujols is a better overall hitter than Manny.

Mortimer · #18 10-15-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Honestly i'm not knocking manny in any way just pointing out the media frenzy that surrounds every guy that acts a little crazy. He is not the greatest righthanded batter right now let alone all time. There are other guys like Hank Aaron, Joe D, Willie Mays, Frank Robinson, Jimmie Foxx, in addition to Pujols who the media seems to have forgotten or worse just doesnt know about or ignores. Manny is a great hitter and you can say he is in the conversation but imo after 8 years Pujols is a better overall hitter than Manny.

Double X is baseballs best kept secret.

Fans should take a look at his career record. It's amazing.When he was done he was 2nd to Ruth in hr's.

SCUDSBROTHER · #19 10-15-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If I hear one more person say Manny is the greatest right handed hitter in baseball history I will scream. He is not even the best right handed hitter in the National League, now.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ramirma02.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pujolal01.shtml

You forced him to hit one out. How much of this has to do with the fact he basically has jungle rope for hair, and Pujols has a razor cut?

Cannon Shell · #20 10-15-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You forced him to hit one out. How much of this has to do with the fact he basically has jungle rope for hair, and Pujols has a razor cut?

The Sampson effect?