Well Danzig, you and Coach Pants have a combined 20,000 posts. At some point you guys are going to be bored. Glad I could break up some of the excitement for you.

Well at least we know who Dr. Fager is. What the hell are you doing with your free time? Trying to breathe with your mouth closed?

i got up at four am, and worked 14 hours today, so now i'm relaxing and taking some down time. do you mind?

as for my post count, who cares? i rank pointing out a post count with saying 'he's done enough'. oh, and with starting yet another big brown thread.

I asked if he would be great if he wins BCC? Not sure if anyone agrees with me, or no one has so far in that scenario. I happen to think he will be great with the year he had. It is not Big Brown's fault that the quality of his competition does not satisfy you or anybody else.

The fact is, with the exception of The Belmont (and I think there are a lot of people including myself that would love to know what really went wrong), he will have won every race if he wins the BCC. He was hurt early as a three year old so his next race he had to heal. Then he raced three times in five weeks. Who else did that? The Haskell was two months later but that is because Big Brown had issues that needed to be looked into so there was no risk in endangering the horse. One more race before the BCC makes sense to me. That is a very solid attendance record for racing this year.

PS....Since Big Brown beat Da'Tara by over 30 lengths at FL Derby, isn't that a pretty good indicator that something was clearly wrong at The Belmont. Some say yeah, he was washed up. Very unfair to the Derby and Preakness champion.

At least that is progress over your past two posts. Welcome back.

Nobody's arguing against that part. . . it's not his loss that doesn't make him great - it's that his good performances aren't good enough.

so, if we ignore actual talent and ability, as well as level of competition. ignore history, ignore everything we've ever seen in the past...and go only by a horses win record....right?...



looks like peppers pride is going to be HOTY. at the very least, she ought to get top distaffer.

I wasn't pointing out your post count to be insulting. You said you were bored as a piggyback to Coachpants. I agreed I was the cause and sorry to break up the excitement. My fault not yours.

I think if Big Brown wins the BCC, you can expect plenty more deserving Big Brown threads.

If he doesn't, I'll still start one LOL

i'll sleep better at night knowing what i have to look forward to.

So can I throw it back at you what did he need to do in those wins for him to gain some accolades? Should he have won by 50 lengths in each race?

Against those horses? Probably. . . He could run faster races for starters. . .

i'd bring up cigar and ask whom big brown was supposed to beat if i was you. that's assuming a fictional you that knows who cigar is.

and it's a completely fraudulent comparison.

but it would be fun to see how people answered. excellent work with the poking stick so far. i don't know why i'm giving you advise. you're doing just fine.

I guess I just feel like I am on the Big Brown Titanic and it has hit the iceberg. I find it very interesting that if you would research the many positive posts about Big Brown on this Board (especially after the Preakness leading up to the Belmont), there were plenty of different tunes back then.
Now some say he is Big Crap or similar references.

I for one will not jump ship on this horse unless I witness him being beaten soundly in a race. Belmont doesn't count (officially it does) since he was right there before being pulled up.

And if he does lose before going to stud, then he loses with a fairly solid season in 2008.

But be careful naysayers! If he does win in his next race and the BCC, won't that make him Eclipse and HOY winner? That can't sit too well for you :)

I'm not sure if I can answer since I am not fictional. But I do like your avatar.

I dont think he would win HOY unless he beats curlin. I think hes a good horse but i dont think you could ever label him great. What he did in Fl and the KD was was impressive. Just like what afleet alex did was impressive. But to be considered a great horse he needs to be impressive every race. You seem as if your trying to learn which is a great thing.

You shouldn't feel the need to defend the horse. It doesn't matter what people think of the horse. He will prove what he is on the track and and history will be a great guide to how good he was. The horse speed wise just does not compare with horses in the past 10 years. Regardless of who he beats or who beats him, this stands out against everything else.

there is nothing ordinary about Big Brown.. except maybe that he's brown. There are two horses running in the US better than Big Brown, Curlin and Commentator. He's not this horrible horse that you make him out to be. He has amazing accomplishments even if they were done against not so hot horses.

You could never label Big Brown great, but you can use the word great with Curlin? How exactly?

People bash the horses Big Brown has beaten this year, but what about the horses Curlin has beaten? That was the worst field ever in the Dubai World Cup (I dont even think thats arguable). He beat Well Armed and Asiatic Boy. And lets look at who he beat in the Foster...Barcola (couldnt even run a competitive race against Evening Attire), Einstein (nice turf horse but not top class on dirt).

Curlin hasnt been impressive in every race either. He got whipped by Any Given Saturday last summer and that horse wasnt that good. He wasnt impressive in his turf race. He got a perfect trip in the Belmont and still lost to a filly. I wouldnt call any of those races impressive.

By today's standards, I guess I'd call him great. But so is Big Brown too. Whats the barometer anyways? We no longer have real horses like Skip Away and Cigar. So I guess we use Curlin and Big Brown to define greatness?!

when did i say he was horrible? not going to argue about the fact that only two horses are better either, as i agree with that.
as for his accomplishments, i thought he ran two very good races in florida and kentucky, as i've said countless times..doesn't make him to be the great horses that others have said he is. absolutely he's the best 3 yo this year-but how much is that saying exactly, considering the level of talent this year.
this is not a black and white issue. it's not accurate to say he's either great, or he's terrible-that if you don't feel one way, you feel the other.

i don't consider either of them great, by any means. to lower standards to meet the reality of horse racing these days would be wrong, which is why i take the stand i do.

the last couple of years we've had decent horses- i thought last years crop was a deep one-but i don't know that any of those horses, curlin included, really hold a candle to horses we've had the pleasure of watching over the years. contentious doesn't mean spectacular.