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-   -   Declans Moon (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8992)

kentuckyrosesinmay 01-20-2007 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajungator26
If I recall, there was only one poster on here "handing Zito's ass to him." :confused:
You are correct. There is only one poster that had anything negative to say about Zito on this board. I like both trainers too Cajun.

Cajungator26 01-20-2007 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
You are correct. There is only one poster that had anything negative to say about Zito on this board. I like both trainers too Cajun.
That's what I thought... I seem to remember everyone else arguing with Euro about it. LOL :D

Rupert Pupkin 01-20-2007 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper
that one there doesn't quote ellis, but i remember a quote where, he indeed, said he was pointing for the strub series. i remember clearly discussing it with somebody and saying it would have been nice if the reporter would have covered for him. it might have been in the print version of drf. i remember it very well. i thought at the time it was very tacky that the reporter didn't have his back. i think it was with gmb, i'm sure it was (is gmb on this board?). i remember gmb asking why would any reporter want to cover for him, he's a jerk. then greg said he wouldn't let ellis train a mule, never mind a thoroughbred.

anyway, i don't care. i just find it funny that zito got his a$$ handed to him on this board, and ron ellis is getting so much support. if you want to support ron ellis with a couple of 4th place derby finishes, and bust zito because he's only WON a few triple crown races, it's just backasswards. in my humble opinion, the difference between those two trainers is night and day, and i don't think i need to state which one i think is in the dark.
There is no chance that Ellis mentioned the Strub Series. I know Ellis very well. He knows what's going on. He knows how old his horse is. The reason I asked to see the quote was because I knew that there was no chance that Ellis said that. Sure enough, there is no quote from Ellis that mentions the Strub. If he said he was going to run in the Strub Series, that's what the quote would have said. If he was that specific in mentioning the Strub Series, then why would the quote have only mentioned "the big races at Santa Anita"? Do you think in one sentence he said, "I'm pointing him for the Strub Series."? Then in the next sentence he said, "Im pointing him for the big races at Santa Anita."? That's ridiculous. It was obviously the writer that made the mistake.

With regard to Nick Zito, I think he is a very good trainer.

Rupert Pupkin 01-20-2007 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
Dude, you can't be serious. Buzzard Bay's OP romp was one of the most impressive races of the entire year. He ran his guts out that day.
Some of the stuff you read here is incredible. A horse has a 3/4 of a length lead in :46 3/5, which is a very fast half at Oaklawn. The horse ended up blowing away the field by 6 lengths and the poster says that BB won because he got an easy lead. Unbelievable!

By the way, this whole discussion about Ellis is absurd. How could a bad trainer win graded stakes races at a 40% clip? How could a bad trainer have a win percentage of 29% in 2005? Those numbers are incredible. You have to be a really good trainer to have numbers like that.

Saying that Ellis did a terrible job with DM and ran him way over his head would be similar to saying that Pletcher did a terrible job with Flower Alley and ran him over his head in 2006. Neither trainer did a bad job. Sometimes horses just don't have it any more and sometimes you can't tell from watching them train. You think the horse still has it, but he doesn't.

2Hot4TV 01-20-2007 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonegossard
LOL

One of the funniest posts I have seen.


Someone telling me he is a better trainer than me. Too damn funny.


Newsflash genius...I am not a horse trainer. I suppose I should gloat that I am a better commodities trader than Ellis huh?
Stoner we could tell that you don't know much about horses and as far as a better ??? You can be anything you want and we really don't care.

The Bid 01-20-2007 08:14 PM
I think that sums it up pretty well. Declans Moon just isnt the same horse since the injuries.

Rupe, He backs up so quickly it almost looks like he bleeds, Im surprised to hear he scoped clean.

stonegossard 01-20-2007 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
That was the mistake of the person who wrote the article. Read Ellis' quote. Ellis didn't mention the Strub Series. Ellis said, "The long range plans are for the big races at Santa Anita." Ellis did not mention the Strub Series. The person who wrote the article was the one who mentioned the Strub Series. The writer obviously forget how old DM was.

I can assure you that Ellis never mentioned the Strub Series.


You sure do assume a lot of things.....have an answer for everything.

Ron Ellis is an average trainer at best......I have pretty much showed you a lot of evidence...and you have come up with some pretty weak responses....

If you really want a laugh watch when he is a guest on TVG.....there he really embarasses himself....

stonegossard 01-20-2007 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper
that one there doesn't quote ellis, but i remember a quote where, he indeed, said he was pointing for the strub series. i remember clearly discussing it with somebody and saying it would have been nice if the reporter would have covered for him. it might have been in the print version of drf. i remember it very well. i thought at the time it was very tacky that the reporter didn't have his back. i think it was with gmb, i'm sure it was (is gmb on this board?). i remember gmb asking why would any reporter want to cover for him, he's a jerk. then greg said he wouldn't let ellis train a mule, never mind a thoroughbred.

anyway, i don't care. i just find it funny that zito got his a$$ handed to him on this board, and ron ellis is getting so much support. if you want to support ron ellis with a couple of 4th place derby finishes, and bust zito because he's only WON a few triple crown races, it's just backasswards. in my humble opinion, the difference between those two trainers is night and day, and i don't think i need to state which one i think is in the dark.


Yes...I heard from other people Ellis mentioned the same thing on TV somewhere....it's obvious..the guy isnt too bright...and comes across as a real cocky prick on tv ....it's funny how he embarasses himself when he is on TVG..

Zito and Ellis shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence. One guy is a hall of fame trainer with a great record...one guy is an average trainer from so-cal who has won a few stakes races....nothing major....like comparing Michael Jordan to Spud Webb

stonegossard 01-20-2007 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
Dude, you can't be serious. Buzzard Bay's OP romp was one of the most impressive races of the entire year. He ran his guts out that day.


Most impressive races of the year? Now that is funny.....keep the jokes coming.....

Seems like a lot more than his guts came out of him during that race....talk about a one race wonder...

stonegossard 01-20-2007 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
There is no chance that Ellis mentioned the Strub Series. I know Ellis very well. He knows what's going on. He knows how old his horse is. The reason I asked to see the quote was because I knew that there was no chance that Ellis said that. Sure enough, there is no quote from Ellis that mentions the Strub. If he said he was going to run in the Strub Series, that's what the quote would have said. If he was that specific in mentioning the Strub Series, then why would the quote have only mentioned "the big races at Santa Anita"? Do you think in one sentence he said, "I'm pointing him for the Strub Series."? Then in the next sentence he said, "Im pointing him for the big races at Santa Anita."? That's ridiculous. It was obviously the writer that made the mistake.

With regard to Nick Zito, I think he is a very good trainer.

The Zito thing wasnt meant for you...was meant for that idiot on here who was blasting him...

He says he is pointing for big races at SA.....The Strub and The Malibu are probably two of the top races (along with big cap and SA Derby)....so I dont get your argument there...those are big races at SA

Listen...I think Ellis is an average trainer at best who really screwed up with Declan's moon.....my opinion which I have the right to.....

You like they guy and think a lot more of him than me....thats fine....lets move on

Scav 01-20-2007 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonegossard
Most impressive races of the year? Now that is funny.....keep the jokes coming.....

Seems like a lot more than his guts came out of him during that race....talk about a one race wonder...
If you recall, he ran a HELL of a Kentucky Derby all things considered. He was like 18 wide with Guidry and at one point took the lead on the turn, think he held for 5th or something.

I am speaking about Buzzard's Bay, just to clarify

stonegossard 01-20-2007 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV
Stoner we could tell that you don't know much about horses and as far as a better ??? You can be anything you want and we really don't care.



I have probably forgotten more than you will ever know. Don't get mad I made fun of that ridiculously immature response you gave me.

Really...in all seriousness....was embarassing...go back and think about what you posted...

How old are you? I set the over/under at 9 yrs old......

stonegossard 01-20-2007 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
If you recall, he ran a HELL of a Kentucky Derby all things considered. He was like 18 wide with Guidry and at one point took the lead on the turn, think he held for 5th or something.

I am speaking about Buzzard's Bay, just to clarify

Was Buzzards Bay a terrible horse? Not at all.....I just think he was a one race wonder...and his record pretty much shows that....

Scav 01-20-2007 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonegossard
Was Buzzards Bay a terrible horse? Not at all.....I just think he was a one race wonder...and his record pretty much shows that....
Well, I disagree with you, and I am hoping he proves you wrong this year

stonegossard 01-20-2007 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
Well, I disagree with you, and I am hoping he proves you wrong this year

Thats cool.....and if he turns out to be a very good horse and win some nice races I will be the first to admit I was wrong...

But after his flop at CD and Ellis recent job with DM I wouldnt hold my breath

Scav 01-20-2007 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonegossard
Thats cool.....and if he turns out to be a very good horse and win some nice races I will be the first to admit I was wrong...

But after his flop at CD and Ellis recent job with DM I wouldnt hold my breath
I don't think DM is Ellis's fault, horse has lost 'it'. You can't teach 'it'. They have to have it.

I really don't see where you are going with busting Ellis. His %'s are amazing, and his horses are always well taken care of. You know, horses that get a taste of the farm sometimes lost 'it' and it looks like that has happened with DM. Could easily be a breathing problem also. who knows...

mark2061mn 01-20-2007 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
Show me the interview where Ellis said he was going to run the horse in the Strub series this year. I don't believe he ever said that. That was the plan last year, not this year. Ellis knows the conditions of the Strub Series and every series for that matter. He is one of the sharpest trainers when it comes to being aware of conditions.

actually, he did say that.. sometime in the fall, he was asked what the plans were for declans moon and he said he was aiming him for the malibu, and then maybe the san fernando. it was only 4-5 months ago.

i distinctly remember reading it, as did other people that i discussed it with (one of which who posts here). i always considered ellis a good trainer, but at that moment, i really doubted his mental sharpness.

The Bid 01-20-2007 10:15 PM
I dont think Ron Ellis did a terrible job bringing Declans Moon back, hes just not much horse. He was a fantastic 2yo pre injury, and he may very well be the same exact horse today. The problem is all the other horses have matured and hes stayed the same or regressed.

Lets say hypothetically Declans Moon was in another barn, would he really be that much better? I mean the horse cant win at Golden Gate Fields for Christ sakes.

I dont think Ellis is a hall of fame trainer, but I dont think hes an idiot. Some guys are sharper than others but if you dont have the horse you just arent going to win, period.

Buzzards Bay Ive always really liked, hes a good looking horse, great looking

Rupert Pupkin 01-20-2007 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Charlie
actually, he did say that.. sometime in the fall, he was asked what the plans were for declans moon and he said he was aiming him for the malibu, and then maybe the san fernando. it was only 4-5 months ago.

i distinctly remember reading it, as did other people that i discussed it with (one of which who posts here). i always considered ellis a good trainer, but at that moment, i really doubted his mental sharpness.
He did say that but that was in the Fall of 2005, not 2006. I know Ron Ellis very well. I talk to him several times a week. I talk to him about DM all the time. He never talked about the Strub Series for 2006 and 2007. Back in 2005, he was hoping to have DM ready for the Strub Series.

mark2061mn 01-20-2007 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
He did say that but that was in the Fall of 2005, not 2006. I know Ron Ellis very well. I talk to him several times a week. I talk to him about DM all the time. He never talked about the Strub Series for 2006 and 2007. Back in 2005, he was hoping to have DM ready for the Strub Series.
maybe, but in that case, i timewarped 16 months in what seemed like 4 months time.

anything is possible i suppose!


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