Boring Derby??

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Danzig

I would like to think more people watched because they heard that we had a really good field this year.

IMO the tie-in to "the best sports day of the year" tag helped more than anything. It was essentially marketed nationally as part of the package deal w/playoffs and the fight all on one day.

[MaTH716]

I thought the race was great. Although maybe not the balloons everyone was looking for, it was the battle that I at least wanted to see at the top of the stretch.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Oh a great deal about it was ridiculous, but it just got the highest ratings since 1992. Apparently whatever they're doing works

I just want to point something out.(Glad to see you around, Merlinsky! ).

First off I think the ratings system is completely outdated and has been for oh... about two decades or so and second the actual figure really does not have much to do with it "working".

I mean it's not like there were choices... most Americans watched it on tv and your choice was NBC or not watching it.

Network execs who have no interest in the sport put the show together.

It will remain pretty much the way it is until another network has a shot with it.

Hopefully when that happens (2026? God I will probably be dead by then. ) things will (yes, that was for Cardus. Maybe it'll bring him out of the woodwork ) change.

[alysheba4]

Billy R the producer is a big horse racing fan.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

Billy R the producer is a big horse racing fan.

Well I'm not sure how many producers there were total or the hierarchy for the endless coverage but if he was, as you say, a fan and in a position of power it's a real shame he didn't or wasn't able to help guide the broadcast toward a new (and better) direction.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Come on folks, it's the Derby...I hear the same old tired complaints every year. Look, TV networks are successful by playing to their audience, how much of their audience is made up of hard core horse players? I suspect that the majority of those who were at CD yesterday attend once a year and the TV audience...many don't know which end of the horse goes into the gate first. They tune in for entertainment...the same folks who enjoy shows like Fashion Police and Entertainment Tonight, do you think they are interested in handicapping insights? Sure inane puff pieces by figure skaters and focus on hats and drinks drives us crazy but it's what the TV audience at large wants...grin and bare it!

Just about sums it up perfectly.

[ghartman02]

Haven't seen a Derby Broadcast for years. However, it seems NBC has done some good. The on-track crowd is strong, the ratings are good, and here in Cincinnati, I don't remember so many people with the Derby on their mind. There were Derby Parties at many places, so Derby is IMHO gaining in the psyche. Plus I saw advertisements back in March for the Derby on NBC. Add that I saw Derby coverage on Fox News, CNN, and last night Watters World on Fox News's O'reilly Factor.

[-BT-]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I thought the race was great. Although maybe not the balloons everyone was looking for, it was the battle that I at least wanted to see at the top of the stretch.

it was essentially a conveyer belt around the track, nobody moved.
The top 3 into turn one were the top 3 into the stretch, nobody closed, except Frosted, too late.
Had a great view as they came into the lane as i was in section 127 2nd row, and Espinoza was working on AP, no cake walk by any means.

boring? i can't say i've seen too many boring derby's, War Emblem comes to mind, gate to wire. Let's just say it was very "formful", and the fact that "formful" horses didn't have to carve out a trip but rather just went on/near the lead, i can understand how some would think it might have been boring.

as far as the tv coverage leading up, if you don't like it, you're not required to watch it, change the channel, soooooo many people on this site saying how this is a dieing sport that get's no coverage. When it get's coverage, it's too much fluff for your taste, this aint Burger King, you can't always have it your way. ANY horse racing coverage is better then NO horse racing coverage is how i view it.

-bt-

[GPK]

Originally Posted by -BT-

it was essentially a conveyer belt around the track, nobody moved.
The top 3 into turn one were the top 3 into the stretch, nobody closed, except Frosted, too late.
Had a great view as they came into the lane as i was in section 127 2nd row, and Espinoza was working on AP, no cake walk by any means.

boring? i can't say i've seen too many boring derby's, War Emblem comes to mind, gate to wire. Let's just say it was very "formful", and the fact that "formful" horses didn't have to carve out a trip but rather just went on/near the lead, i can understand how some would think it might have been boring.

as far as the tv coverage leading up, if you don't like it, you're not required to watch it, change the channel, soooooo many people on this site saying how this is a dieing sport that get's no coverage. When it get's coverage, it's too much fluff for your taste, this aint Burger King, you can't always have it your way. ANY horse racing coverage is better then NO horse racing coverage is how i view it.

-bt-

What did your part in that pick 4 net you? $1.45?

[3kings]

The new point systems has gotten rid of the majority of cheap speed. I have a feeling that future Derbys will be much more formful than in the past.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by GPK

What did your part in that pick 4 net you? $-1.45?

Knowing how those syndicate bets usually go, I FTFY Kev.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by 3kings

The new point systems has gotten rid of the majority of cheap speed. I have a feeling that future Derbys will be much more formful than in the past.

How can you say that. Stanford doesn't scratch and we are looking at a different pace scenario not just which Baffert would engage Firing Line.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by jms62

How can you say that. Stanford doesn't scratch and we are looking at a different pace scenario not just which Baffert would engage Firing Line.

The fractions last year were moderate and they were again this year. It's a small sample size but I think it will be more the norm than in the past. It is not a sure thing than horses like Stanford will break well and frankly be good enough to influence the race like pure speed horses of the past. The days off accomplished pure sprinters like Trinniberg making it to the Derby are gone and so is the guarantee of a pace melt down.

[-BT-]

Originally Posted by GPK

What did your part in that pick 4 net you? $1.45?

which would be $1.45 more then you're allowed to have in an ADW account registered to your name/location


KABOOM!!!

-bt-

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by 3kings

The fractions last year were moderate and they were again this year. It's a small sample size but I think it will be more the norm than in the past. It is not a sure thing than horses like Stanford will break well and frankly be good enough to influence the race like pure speed horses of the past. The days off accomplished pure sprinters like Trinniberg making it to the Derby are gone and so is the guarantee of a pace melt down.

I think you're always going to get one of those rabbits that freak and get into the race, the question is whether they go or even break well enough to go. Even with the Stanford scratch, I figured on a couple of other horses going.
I thought Ocho was going to have to go from the rail, Materiality broke poorly and I'm guessing it was a good time to experiment and try to rate with Mr. Z .

It's still its gonna be a crapshoot. There is so much racing luck needed in a 20 horse field. I just think in this years case, the 3 best horses had clean trips.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by 3kings

The fractions last year were moderate and they were again this year. It's a small sample size but I think it will be more the norm than in the past. It is not a sure thing than horses like Stanford will break well and frankly be good enough to influence the race like pure speed horses of the past. The days off accomplished pure sprinters like Trinniberg making it to the Derby are gone and so is the guarantee of a pace melt down.

Not sure I agree about never seeing a pace meltdown but your point is certainly valid. We won't see any horses in the Derby off of 7 Furlong Prep wins.

[ElPrado]

We are going to see a bunch of runners with 8 and 9 furlong prep wins, though. All the trainers will do now is look around for the race with the fewest quality horses left without a top colt. 8 and 9 furlong preps everywhere from New York to Idaho, throwing money at all the semi good colts they can find.
Cherry Pick City.
It will be just like this year. 3 decent colts and 17 that finish starting about 5 lengths back.
Pletcher invented the game. You buy half the decent colts in a 2 year old sale. Place them with 20 owners with money coming out of their ears. Win them all kinds of money with horses bred to win at 2. Run them into the ground placing them at Gulfstream, Keeneland, Fair Grounds, somewhere in Texas, Tampa, outer Arkansas, wherever else he can put them where he doesn't run them against each other. Eventually you have winnowed the list to 2 or 3 maybe's. Enter everything still standing in the Derby. Tell the owners they have to go, they have points! Fill the whole card up with the herd that hasn't made the grade.
Oh boy! Carpe Diem!
Oh boy! Materiality!
He won't get many Derby winners, but he sure will rake in the money in the preps. I've been watching him for years.
Ever talk to him at the track? I have.
The first time he is fawning all over you. By the end of the race where he met you, he's checked on line. If you have less than a few million he makes sure he stays as far away as he can get. And it's experience talking.

[Port Conway Lane]

The pacesetters in most of the derbys I recall never were horses exiting a sprint. They were horses who earned their way in through 1 1/8 mile major preps.One could look back and point out the pacesetter was ultimately a better sprinter during his career.
The current point system favors good recent form in major preps and is not favorable to 2YO's hanging on to inflated purses in sprints or one turn miles. Historically very few of these even enter the gate unless they prove themselves as a 3YO in a major prep. Inevitably there will be plenty of pace meltdown scenario's in the future, it just hasn't happened the last two. Anyway Trinniberg may have pressed the pace but there was no melt down.