Espinoza fined for excessive whipping of Stellar Wind

[Alabama Stakes]

pain and pleasure aren't opposites when it comes to the whip.

no one ever said boo when Ramon Dominguez would reach back and give the hoss a bone crusher to the stomach about 30 yards from the wire and have the hoss respond and win the race. would you rather get 20 love taps ? or one haymaker ?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Arletta

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's the same article

yep, it is.

when i copied/pasted that portion, it automatically linked it at the bottom. bloodhorses do the same thing. i'm sure you've noticed it yourself.

[Dunbar]

Rather than argue about whether being struck by a half-pound stick can cause pain, I'll say that it certainly creates the perception that a horse is being hurt. Perceptions matter.

As a culture, our sensibilities change over time. Things that were acceptable or taken for granted 50 or 100 years ago raise questions today. Dog fighting was a popular sport in the 1800's and had rules endorsed by the United Kennel Club. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_fighting ) Today it's thought to be cruel.

Those close to horseracing see the use of whips as integral, harmless, and necessary to the sport. Much of the public doesn't see it that way.

I fail to see why whipping is necessary. If no rider had a whip, there could still be horseracing. In fact, there already is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDagfA7qQ8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzDM_0H_IEc

Okay, it's not exactly Saratoga, but it's horseracing. The first 3/4 of those races look a lot like a US race. The last 1/4 does, too, except for the lack of whips.

I don't know if whip use would have changed the outcome of those 2 races, and I don't care. The winners won fair and square under the conditions run.

There are a lot of reasons for racing's decline in popularity in the past 50 years. Energy spent defending the use of the whip could be better spent addressing some of those other issues. Defending whip use is ultimately going to be wasted energy. I'll be surprised if anything resembling hitting a horse with a half-pound stick will be allowed 20 years from now.

--Dunbar

[Danzig]

i think it's gone down in popularity just because there are so many other things to do.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I fail to see why whipping is necessary. If no rider had a whip, there could still be horseracing. In fact, there already is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDagfA7qQ8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzDM_0H_IEc

Okay, it's not exactly Saratoga, but it's horseracing. The first 3/4 of those races look a lot like a US race. The last 1/4 does, too, except for the lack of whips.

I don't know if whip use would have changed the outcome of those 2 races, and I don't care. The winners won fair and square under the conditions run.

IMO it's necessary more for directional purposes than motivation. If you have a horse that wants to drift in or out, the best and quickest way to correct that is with the stick.

[Sightseek]

Great conversation with The Mig on Stevie's show today.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

IMO it's necessary more for directional purposes than motivation. If you have a horse that wants to drift in or out, the best and quickest way to correct that is with the stick.

Speaking as someone who took riding lessons as an adult, teachers didn't let students of any age on the horse without a stick. It was a safety thing - as you said, it directs them away from things. Other horses, fences, walls, etc.

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Great conversation with The Mig on Stevie's show today.

Agree. I always value his perspective.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Speaking as someone who took riding lessons as an adult, teachers didn't let students of any age on the horse without a stick. It was a safety thing - as you said, it directs them away from things. Other horses, fences, walls, etc.

someone said something very similar on the bloodhorse comments the other day...and then said 'but i think they should ban crops'. why would you say they're necessary, but then say take them away?
weird.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

There are a lot of reasons for racing's decline in popularity in the past 50 years. Energy spent defending the use of the whip could be better spent addressing some of those other issues. Defending whip use is ultimately going to be wasted energy. I'll be surprised if anything resembling hitting a horse with a half-pound stick will be allowed 20 years from now.

--Dunbar

Would it be fair to say that energy spent trying to ban the whip might be wasted energy as well? Maybe energy spent trying to ban the whip could be better spent addressing more important issues that actually impact people that put their money into the game.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

Would it be fair to say that energy spent trying to ban the whip might be wasted energy as well? Maybe energy spent trying to ban the whip could be better spent addressing more important issues that actually impact people that put their money into the game.

, again.
you're on a roll.