guns

[Danzig]

so, obama had a speech today, and one of the things he said he was doing was:

'the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) will issue guidelines intended to narrow exceptions to a system that requires sellers to check with the Federal Bureau of Investigation to determine whether buyers have criminal records, are charged with crimes or have mental health conditions that would bar them from owning a gun.'

but here's a problem. after sandy hook, one of the things in the bill that failed was an increase in funding to states, to help their b/g check systems. a background check is only as good as the info put in. several of the more recent shooters should not have been cleared to buy, but were cleared because their info wasn't all in there to flag their purchase.
one had crimes he'd been charged with that didn't show up, others have had domestic violence issues, or mental health issues, but they didn't appear.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Well, it's an awful lot easier to ignore the problem (violence) and simply overreact by myopically throwing an emotional temper tantrum with a pen.

Unfortunately, actually working through the issues with facts & details with Congress would require discussion and debate, something he consistently demonstrates a zero tolerance for.

He's the Emperor after all, and the Emperor has a tee time.

Shouldn't we be used to it from him by now?

[Danzig]

congress is as much to blame. hard to discuss and debate with a group of people who said they would fight him on everything, isn't it?

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Danzig

congress is as much to blame. hard to discuss and debate with a group of people who said they would fight him on everything, isn't it?

You mean the same *group of people* that have given him everything he's asked for, from open borders to Obamacare and everything else in between?

Did we not just see Paul Ryan and Nancy Pelosi walking arm and arm down the aisle with a 1 trillion dollar budget to dump on the debt heap, that ensures more immigrants, doesn't correct any of the mountainous cost overruns of Obamacare, etc.?

Yeah, no pushovers there... better to pull out the pen, cry like a baby, and blame inanimate objects as the cause of violence

[Danzig]

everyone knows that the repubs decided to bar any of his ideas, and absolutely refused to deal with him on anything, it's a matter of public record.
budgets are done regardless of president.

[Rudeboyelvis]

[OldDog]

Obama's proposal does nothing except bolster gun sales and - if enacted - enrich licensed gun dealers. It does however keep the hey-a-shiny-penny-media from talking about how Iran is thumbing its nose at us.

[Danzig]

the increased gun checks won't do a thing tho unless the actual system is fixed.
until that happens, all the tears and admonitions don't do squat.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Unfortunately, actually working through the issues with facts & details with Congress would require discussion and debate, something he consistently demonstrates a zero tolerance for.

What facts and details? You mean the ones the GOP Congress forbids the CDC from studying?

http://www.businessinsider.com/congr...ewnewed-2015-7

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

will bad guys turn in their guns? then wtf is the point..

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

will bad guys turn in their guns? then wtf is the point..

It's a feel good executive order......

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

will bad guys turn in their guns? then wtf is the point..

Of course not.
Should we get rid of murder laws? I mean, people still murder. We passed stiffer drunk driving laws, were they a waste because people still drive drunk?
Several recent mass shooters passed a check that failed because of lack of info.
What if they couldnt buy that gun they should have been barred from buying?
We cant stop everything, so we shouldnt even try at all?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by geeker2

It's a feel good executive order......

it was largely symbolic. Unless the background check is funded correctly and given all pertinent info, having expanded checks isnt really enough. Only about 2/3rds of gun purchaes have a check done. They all should have a check, and the info should be complete.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

will bad guys turn in their guns? then wtf is the point..

I don't think it's about bad guys turning in guns, but then, the real problem with guns is that there are too many of them in the hands of people who shouldn't have them, and I don't even mean people who use them to commit crimes. There are plenty of perfectly law-abiding American citizens who are just not responsible enough to own a gun. And plenty of men who can't control their tempers enough to be trusted with one, and yet they can buy them legally.

Some stats on firearms and domestic violence:
http://smartgunlaws.org/domestic-vio...olicy-summary/

Stats on children killed in unintentional shootings:
http://everytownresearch.org/reports/innocents_lost/

And guns and suicide:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine...e-hidden-toll/

And before the, "But if they don't have a gun, they'll kill themselves some other way" starts- no. The thing with suicide attempts is that if a person fails, there is a 90 percent chance they will not ultimately kill themselves (risk is highest in the first year, when 15 percent try again). People using guns for suicide are successful 85 percent of the time, compared with drugs, the most common method attempted, which are successful a whopping THREE percent of the time. Basically, if a suicidal person has a gun, there's a good chance they will succeed, and so won't have an opportunity to get help, while if they try ANY OTHER method, there's a good chance they won't succeed and have a second chance to get help. In fact, people are spectacularly bad at successful suicide- unless there is a gun involved. Then they're really good at it.

The NRA has made a lot of gun manufacturers a lot of money by convincing gullible Americans that the world is a dangerous, scary place and the only way to protect oneself from danger is to own a gun. Never mind that owning a gun makes a person less safe, not more. But rather than let that information get out, the NRA lobbies Congress to block research into gun violence. Read the article I linked to earlier, about the CDC being blocked from researching it. People are afraid to lose their careers over it. It's really depressing.

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Only about 2/3rds of gun purchaes have a check done.

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/03/gun...ground-checks/

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/0...true/15153955/

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I don't think it's about bad guys turning in guns, but then, the real problem with guns is that there are too many of them in the hands of people who shouldn't have them, and I don't even mean people who use them to commit crimes. There are plenty of perfectly law-abiding American citizens who are just not responsible enough to own a gun. And plenty of men who can't control their tempers enough to be trusted with one, and yet they can buy them legally.

Some stats on firearms and domestic violence:
http://smartgunlaws.org/domestic-vio...olicy-summary/

Stats on children killed in unintentional shootings:
http://everytownresearch.org/reports/innocents_lost/

And guns and suicide:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine...e-hidden-toll/

And before the, "But if they don't have a gun, they'll kill themselves some other way" starts- no. The thing with suicide attempts is that if a person fails, there is a 90 percent chance they will not ultimately kill themselves (risk is highest in the first year, when 15 percent try again). People using guns for suicide are successful 85 percent of the time, compared with drugs, the most common method attempted, which are successful a whopping THREE percent of the time. Basically, if a suicidal person has a gun, there's a good chance they will succeed, and so won't have an opportunity to get help, while if they try ANY OTHER method, there's a good chance they won't succeed and have a second chance to get help. In fact, people are spectacularly bad at successful suicide- unless there is a gun involved. Then they're really good at it.

The NRA has made a lot of gun manufacturers a lot of money by convincing gullible Americans that the world is a dangerous, scary place and the only way to protect oneself from danger is to own a gun. Never mind that owning a gun makes a person less safe, not more. But rather than let that information get out, the NRA lobbies Congress to block research into gun violence. Read the article I linked to earlier, about the CDC being blocked from researching it. People are afraid to lose their careers over it. It's really depressing.

Actually, the greatest Salesman in the history of the gun industry is Barack Obama

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Well, it's an awful lot easier to ignore the problem (violence) and simply overreact by myopically throwing an emotional temper tantrum with a pen.

Unfortunately, actually working through the issues with facts & details with Congress would require discussion and debate, something he consistently demonstrates a zero tolerance for.

He's the Emperor after all, and the Emperor has a tee time.

Shouldn't we be used to it from him by now?

They have NOT worked with this President on JACK SHITE, since the RepubliCONS have been in charge! Cuz they've done nothing but try to destroy the man, since before he was in office! In terms of debating this issue of guns, they are to fukking busy sucking on the NRA'S JUGS!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by OldDog

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/03/gun...ground-checks/

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/0...true/15153955/

Thanks for posting that. Id never read about 40 percent tho, all i had ever seen referenced was that about 70 percent of purchases go thru an ffl holder. But i have always wondered how they would have concrete numbers, since private transactions cannot be tracked.

But indid find this interesting, in a search indis after seeing your links.

http://smartgunlaws.org/universal-gu...olicy-summary/

100 percent of transfers should go thru a check, and the bground system needs to be complete.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by mclem0822

They have NOT worked with this President on JACK SHITE, since the RepubliCONS have been in charge! Cuz they've done nothing but try to destroy the man, since before he was in office! In terms of debating this issue of guns, they are to fukking busy sucking on the NRA'S JUGS!

true statement..
Heard today that N,Korea tested a nuclear bomb...and the repukes are blaming Obama for letting it happen...they forgot they also did it back in 2006 on Dumya's watch

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by bigrun

true statement..
Heard today that N,Korea tested a nuclear bomb...and the repukes are blaming Obama for letting it happen...they forgot they also did it back in 2006 on Dumya's watch

They claimed they tested a hydrogen bomb, which is under dispute.
http://gizmodo.com/north-korea-says-...l-b-1747352100