Should Songbird retire?

[Indian Charlie]

The new article up at bloodhorse said she's going up for sale and that she was visibly lame and extremely lucky to not have had a catastrophic break down. This makes hollendorfer look incompetent.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

The new article up at bloodhorse said she's going up for sale and that she was visibly lame and extremely lucky to not have had a catastrophic break down. This makes hollendorfer look incompetent.

Porter said same thing a few minutes back on TVG. In my opinion this throws Hollendorfer under the bus.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by jms62

Porter said same thing a few minutes back on TVG. In my opinion this throws Hollendorfer under the bus.

The veterinary report states that jogging in a straight line there was no obvious lameness. It was only when she was circled in either direction that any lameness was visible.

Its probably rare for horses to be jogged on a circle during routine pre- and post-race exams by horsemen in the setting of a shed row. If they did, there'd probably be even smaller fields, many more race day scratches, and earlier retirements.

The report also mentioned that there was no obvious external swelling on the horse even if a hind end issue was suspected.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The veterinary report states that jogging in a straight line there was no obvious lameness. It was only when she was circled in either direction that any lameness was visible.

Its probably rare for horses to be jogged on a circle during routine pre- and post-race exams by horsemen in the setting of a shed row. If they did, there'd probably be even smaller fields, many more race day scratches, and earlier retirements.

The report also mentioned that there was no obvious external swelling on the horse even if a hind end issue was suspected.

"We flew her to Louisville, they vanned her (to Rood & Riddle), and as soon as she came off ... Bramlage said he noticed right away that she was off behind,"

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

"We flew her to Louisville, they vanned her (to Rood & Riddle), and as soon as she came off ... Bramlage said he noticed right away that she was off behind,"

Saw that, too.

It's a question of whether you believe hearsay or actual documentation from the original source.

[10 pnt move up]

Hollendorfer is pretty conservative and frankly I see now way he just runs to run, aint his style.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Saw that, too.

It's a question of whether you believe hearsay or actual documentation from the original source.

That was a quote from Porter. That sells out Hollendorfer but makes Porter look like an ass.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

That was a quote from Porter. That sells out Hollendorfer but makes Porter look like an ass.

The owner is a bit all over the place and misquoted the examining vet a couple of times if we take the actual vet report as objectively true (and the turf writer's article as accurately quoting Porter).

Porter says the vet notice the lameness right off the van, but the vet reports that it was only by jogging under special conditions (i.e., circling) that the lameness was apparent, and was "not obvious" jogging in a straight line.

Porter also says that the reason the horse had a front end issue was because of the hind end problems: "When he found out she was lame after he blocked the back, and when he got to the front end—which he thinks was caused by the back end—that was major."

In the vet report, the exact opposite is stated: "the front...problem is the root cause of her getting sore behind..."

What's apparent is that Songbird's physical issues were ongoing and did not originate from the Personal Ensign effort alone. Every race she was running in was cashing a check on her body's account. The connections, armed with the knowledge of how much her issues have progressed, are simply making a judgment call that her body can't cash any more checks.

That's fair enough, but its an imperfect science predicting the actual stopping point. There might have been one or two more checks left to write...at the same time, those checks might have bounced.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The owner is a bit all over the place and misquoted the examining vet a couple of times if we take the actual vet report as objectively true (and the turf writer's article as accurately quoting Porter).

Porter says the vet notice the lameness right off the van, but the vet reports that it was only by jogging under special conditions (i.e., circling) that the lameness was apparent, and was "not obvious" jogging in a straight line.

Porter also says that the reason the horse had a front end issue was because of the hind end problems: "When he found out she was lame after he blocked the back, and when he got to the front end—which he thinks was caused by the back end—that was major."

In the vet report, the exact opposite is stated: "the front...problem is the root cause of her getting sore behind..."

What's apparent is that Songbird's physical issues were ongoing and did not originate from the Personal Ensign effort alone. Every race she was running in was cashing a check on her body's account. The connections, armed with the knowledge of how much her issues have progressed, are simply making a judgment call that her body can't cash any more checks.

That's fair enough, but its an imperfect science predicting the actual stopping point. There might have been one or two more checks left to write...at the same time, those checks might have bounced.

Basically IF she had won the photo and everyone was all smiles, she would have been back to her old self rounding back into her elite form(something you suggested I sort of agreed) . She fly's home, they treat her accordingly with appropriate medication if indicated and they see if another check will clear in 8 weeks.. Just like virtually every other horse that is responsibly campaigned.

2 feet between Responsibly Retired and Responsibly Campaigned.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

The new article up at bloodhorse said she's going up for sale and that she was visibly lame and extremely lucky to not have had a catastrophic break down. This makes hollendorfer look incompetent.

Exactly. 2 friggin feet from winning her race, flying home resting, and being responsibly cared for and back for another crack at Distaff. Instead Dorf is made to look like a cretin running busted horses. Racing as usual is its own worst enemy.

Because I never thought she deserved the over the top rep never meant I didnt KNOW her trainer deserved every ounce of his. Some things you cant make up