NYRA Late Pick 5

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Songbird is about the 20th best female horse of the past 10 years. Get over it.

I doubt that anyone who saw her at Saratoga would agree with you.
Where would you rate Zenyatta or Winx ?

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

I doubt that anyone who saw her at Saratoga would agree with you.
Where would you rate Zenyatta or Winx ?

Lets keep it simple. Was Songbird better then Close Hatches?

[freddymo]

Based on accomplishments Songbird was a great filly especially at 2 when I would suggest she was at least as fast as Nyquist and the at the most dominant point in her career. That said she couldn't warm up a plethora of fillies we have had the pleasure of watching. It's ok to be objective and not knock a horses accomplishments.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

While I know this will bother some folks here on the board, the NYRA Bets Late Pick 5 is the PERFECT counter-play (counter-argument meaning "player friendly") to the crazy Rainbow 6 (single winning ticket) bets that are taking money out of the churn at so many racetracks.

NYRA is keeping their players on the inside of this bet, controlling their own pool (and with it, the full takeout), and is redistributing winnings to folks inside their own wagering network. This develops further churn and cultivates players.

Without seeing (what I will call) the re-churn figures, we cannot be sure of the replay rates.

One thing for sure is that if big players from off-the-NYRA circuit play and cash, that would leave to a cash drain (similar to a Rainbow 6) for local players. The NYRA Bets Late Pick 5 is the exact opposite.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...et-new-record/

[freddymo]

“The Stronach Group is creating an entirely new way to experience the races while embracing generations of new fans through world-class entertainment and events. We look forward to our Spring/Summer meet and building on our year-round program and preparing for another memorable Championship Meet in 2018-2019.”

Yeah OK who believes this drivel #Signaldumping

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by jms62

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...et-new-record/

Dear JMS62 : Thank you for sharing this article from Paulick Report. Very useful to see the overall handle increase from Gulfstream during the Championship (Winter) Meet. Some questions that I know you (or any of us) will not be able to answer, but are asked none the less.

[1] During the two-week NYRA weather shut-down in January, how much did Gulfstream benefit in handle? Probably on the order of $7M-8M per day - so let's say that contributed about $70M to the difference in Gulfstream handle.

[2] How long did it take the NYRA/Gulfstream balance to resume during the third and fourth weeks in January? In other words, the weather did cost NYRA following and that had a longer term impact. Let's say that contributed another $20M in handle.

There is the $90M difference. Now, to disclose bias which is only fair, I do not wager a single dime on Gulfstream in the Winter Season. Jason, Acacia, and others try to lure me, but it just isn't my cup of tea.

If you had to bet on the future of horse racing investment, are you backing Stronach or NYRA? The harness racing game has taught us (via the Meadowlands) that when the keystone falls, the game collapses. Stronach is NOT a keystone in this discussion.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Dear JMS62 : Thank you for sharing this article from Paulick Report. Very useful to see the overall handle increase from Gulfstream during the Championship (Winter) Meet. Some questions that I know you (or any of us) will not be able to answer, but are asked none the less.

[1] During the two-week NYRA weather shut-down in January, how much did Gulfstream benefit in handle? Probably on the order of $7M-8M per day - so let's say that contributed about $70M to the difference in Gulfstream handle.

[2] How long did it take the NYRA/Gulfstream balance to resume during the third and fourth weeks in January? In other words, the weather did cost NYRA following and that had a longer term impact. Let's say that contributed another $20M in handle.

There is the $90M difference. Now, to disclose bias which is only fair, I do not wager a single dime on Gulfstream in the Winter Season. Jason, Acacia, and others try to lure me, but it just isn't my cup of tea.

If you had to bet on the future of horse racing investment, are you backing Stronach or NYRA? The harness racing game has taught us (via the Meadowlands) that when the keystone falls, the game collapses. Stronach is NOT a keystone in this discussion.

I wasn’t aware that this was a Stronach vs NYRA discussion. Are you seriously trying to argue that NYRA’s Winter product is comparable to Gulfstream and the bad weather is the differnce in handle?

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by jms62

I wasn’t aware that this was a Stronach vs NYRA discussion. Are you seriously trying to argue that NYRA’s Winter product is comparable to Gulfstream and the bad weather is the differnce in handle?

Dear JMS62 : Thanks for the response and exchange.

From the Paulich Report article : "Total handle during the Championship Meet was $957 million, eclipsing last year's record of $867 million by 10.4 percent. Handle including total simulcast was $1.021 billion. On-track handle was up $3.9 million."

So, $90M came from somewhere. I have offered an plausible view - this was NYRA handle that shifted from off-site locations to Gulfstream, the next logical East Coast wagering venue.

I would not suggest that the Gulfstream product was more or less attractive than last year - to me, it was the same product. Again, I disclosed my bias that Gulfstream does not attract my wagering pesos.

In closing, to argue that Gulfstream INCREASED business by 10% would require some form of business defense.

[Alabama Stakes]

7-8 million a day during weather closing ? Where did you dream those figures up?

Any opinion on NYRA raising Saratoga admission 40% ?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Dear JMS62 : Thanks for the response and exchange.

From the Paulich Report article : "Total handle during the Championship Meet was $957 million, eclipsing last year's record of $867 million by 10.4 percent. Handle including total simulcast was $1.021 billion. On-track handle was up $3.9 million."

So, $90M came from somewhere. I have offered an plausible view - this was NYRA handle that shifted from off-site locations to Gulfstream, the next logical East Coast wagering venue.

I would not suggest that the Gulfstream product was more or less attractive than last year - to me, it was the same product. Again, I disclosed my bias that Gulfstream does not attract my wagering pesos.

In closing, to argue that Gulfstream INCREASED business by 10% would require some form of business defense.

Not a stretch to say that extra money came from those playing the Rainbow 6 and additionally betting other races within the sequence or prior races while waiting for the sequence. IMO No one but you is making a year over year Gulftstream comparison. The comparision is NYRA winter product vs Gulfstream. There is no comparison whatsoever. Gulfstream owns the winter just as NYRA owns the other 8 months out of the year.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

So, $90M came from somewhere.

The missing quotient(s) from this worthwhile discussion are the Computer Robotic Wagering Groups. Gulfstream is catering to them creating all kinds of far-reaching (negative) issues.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

7-8 million a day during weather closing ? Where did you dream those figures up?

Any opinion on NYRA raising Saratoga admission 40% ?

Is there a better family experience for seven bucks a person? The economy is better people making more money; inflation is reasonable for now, seems they will get the increase through without much backlash

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The missing quotient(s) from this worthwhile discussion are the Computer Robotic Wagering Groups. Gulfstream is catering to them creating all kinds of far-reaching (negative) issues.

I saw this in the Hallandale Val Pak:

10% OFF YOUR NEXT CATERING ORDER AT Gulfstream Park Hallandale.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Is there a better family experience for seven bucks a person? The economy is better people making more money; inflation is reasonable for now, seems they will get the increase through without much backlash

Yeah ok , who believes this drivel. Let’s juice the folks who actually go to the track. What’s admission at Aqueduct?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Yeah ok , who believes this drivel. Let’s juice the folks who actually go to the track. What’s admission at Aqueduct?

0 because the casino is joined to track, and it would be impossible to enforce. Surely you can't compare SPA to Aqueduct which is the opposite of a family-friendly environment. BTW they have fixed up Aqueduct quite a bit it's fairly easy to take a train to, and I like going a few times a year.

[Alabama Stakes]

So Since Saratoga is better than Aqueduct they should juice the fans for $7 to get in. In a sport where fans are dying and not being replaced by new fans, let’s make it tougher for young people to get into the game. Let’s make it tougher for the working stiff to take the wife and kids to the track. Let’s get rid of those spinners while we are at it. Maybe we can eliminate some more public land at the track and put a few more pay tents up. When does it end ?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

So Since Saratoga is better than Aqueduct they should juice the fans for $7 to get in. In a sport where fans are dying and not being replaced by new fans, let’s make it tougher for young people to get into the game. Let’s make it tougher for the working stiff to take the wife and kids to the track. Let’s get rid of those spinners while we are at it. Maybe we can eliminate some more public land at the track and put a few more pay tents up. When does it end ?

It's 7 bucks the min wage in NYS 13.50 an hour. You get a spectacular place to hang out, bands, BOYB, and 7 hours of the best racing in the world. Why should it be free? I get reimbursing players for admission IF they wager X amount and that should be explored and implemented. I don't agree free is what is required to attract fans in fact if anything it will discourage folks from coming. I am sure they aren't perfect yet NYRA has invested a lot in their product both on the tech side of the equation and at the tracks. You have a new turf course at Big A, you have new barns all over, and the handle has been basically flat. You have to have the revenue to invest and SPA at 7 bucks a head for 35000 people that only bet a little is a good place to pass through reasonable costs

[Alabama Stakes]

Good to hear another viewpoint on the subject.
Hopefully they keep the morning backstretch tour free as it has been very popular to the folks I bring up for their first visit each year.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

7-8 million a day during weather closing ? Where did you dream those figures up?

I used the rough all sources daily handle figures for a Friday/Saturday/Sunday on NYRA in the January months. Steve Byk's post regarding programmed betting is well taken and could be even more significant than my initial analysis.

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Any opinion on NYRA raising Saratoga admission 40% ?

So, we have gone from $5 to $7 gate admission to the general grandstand. Last season, I travelled to attend three weekends (six programs) so this change will cost me $24 (along with spouse). If the additional gate take is used responsibly for maintaining the plant and its functions, I am all in favor.

There has been a ton of non-horse racing research done regarding "free programs" versus "paid admission" in a variety of industries including museums, state parks and gardens, not-for-profit operations, and similar. Interestingly, the research has pointed to more people attending when an admission fee is charged as there is perceived value by the customer as opposed to attending for free. I realize that this is counter-intuitive, but if you are attracting younger twenty-somethings to the races, this strategy might indeed make sense as it creates a value proposition around attending the races. Racetrackers may see it as extra wagering dollars out-of-pocket, but this might actually be ENCOURAGING more younger folks to attend.

[Jasper131]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Dear JMS62 : Thanks for the response and exchange.

From the Paulich Report article : "Total handle during the Championship Meet was $957 million, eclipsing last year's record of $867 million by 10.4 percent. Handle including total simulcast was $1.021 billion. On-track handle was up $3.9 million."

So, $90M came from somewhere. I have offered an plausible view - this was NYRA handle that shifted from off-site locations to Gulfstream, the next logical East Coast wagering venue.

I would not suggest that the Gulfstream product was more or less attractive than last year - to me, it was the same product. Again, I disclosed my bias that Gulfstream does not attract my wagering pesos.

In closing, to argue that Gulfstream INCREASED business by 10% would require some form of business defense.

$40 million of the $90 came from two mandatory Rainbow-6 distributions. Didn't they lose both of the big mandatory payouts last year right before? Or was that two years ago?