Georgie Boy

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Friends with the site owner...What do you expect? He can pretty much say anything to people......You're exactly right,though.....Says Yankee Bravo(who has never run a bad race) stinks,and then he wants people to overlook bad races by horses he likes(or bad races from horses trained by people he likes.) Unbelievable arrogance,actually,but that's the way it is.

I got it. It all makes sense now. This tired meme is quickly becoming the Derby Trail version of Godwin's Law on the internet in general.

Our version (I'll affectionately term it Scud's Law) would go something like this:

As a discussion on Derby Trail grows longer, the probability of a poster claiming that another poster receives special treatment from the site owner ,when no such special treatment exists, approaches one.

Scud's Law is generally applied in disagreements between two or more posters. These disagreements are usually understood by the greater community to be won by the poster(s) who apply the most logic and reasoning to back up their views. Scud's Law tends to become relevant when the poster who has lost the argument on the basis of logic and reasoning states the the argument's victors are only allowed to say what they say (e.g., "win the argument") because Steve Byk personally allows them unchecked reign over the message board. This sort of fallacious argument is the backbone of Scud's Law.

It is well understood that if the argument has yet to be won, the poster who first invokes Scud's Law immediately loses the argument by default, regardless of their view's merit.

[ArlJim78]

Interesting tidbit about Big Booster, he broke his maiden at first asking at Belmont at 1 mile on dirt (off turf). running second? Kittens Joy.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I got it. It all makes sense now. This tired meme is quickly becoming the Derby Trail version of Godwin's Law on the internet in general.

Our version (I'll affectionately term it Scud's Law) would go something like this:

As a discussion on Derby Trail grows longer, the probability of someone invoking special treatment from the site owner when no such special treatment exists approaches one.

Scud's Law is generally applied in disagreements between two or more posters. These disagreements are usually understood by the greater community to be won by the poster(s) who apply the most logic and reasoning to back up their views. Scud's Law tends to become relevant when the poster who has lost the argument on the basis of logic and reasoning states the the argument's victors are only allowed to say what they say (e.g., "win the argument") because Steve Byk personally allows them unchecked reign over the message board. This sort of fallacious argument is the backbone of Scud's Law.

It is well understood that if the argument has yet to be won, the poster who first invokes Scud's Law immediately loses the argument by default, regardless of their view's merit.

I got a Law named for me? Affectionately? These people get a longer rope due to personal friendship.It's why they cut,and then complain about being cut.I told the guy the truth.They are friends with the site owner,and get the longer leash.

[miraja2]

I certainly didn't think there would be a "Big Booster" debate on the board today. Unless I am forgetting something, I don't think the horse has ever cracked the exacta in any graded stakes race on any surface....let alone win one.
Doesn't he basically just stink regardless of the surface?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I got a Law named for me? Affectionately? These people get a longer rope due to personal friendship.It's why they cut,and then complain about being cut.I told the guy the truth.They are friends with the site owner,and get the longer leash.

I think brianwspencer was only allowed to post that stuff about Scud's law because he is actually Byk's adopted son.

BLECH!

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I certainly didn't think there would be a "Big Booster" debate on the board today. Unless I am forgetting something, I don't think the horse has ever cracked the exacta in any graded stakes race on any surface....let alone win one.
Doesn't he basically just stink regardless of the surface?

yes, basically thats right. the topic veered off on to Big Booster because of a throwaway statement I made about him while trying to stimulate a different discussion.
He has not been anything exceptional on turf throughout his career, and he is not exceptional now in California on synthetic. He is better on turf and synthetic than dirt. not a big story really.

[ForestofWonders]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The top 3 finishers in the Big Cap were all turf horses.

The winner of the Donn Handicap this year ran on turf as well.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Says Yankee Bravo(who has never run a bad race) stinks,and then he wants people to overlook bad races by horses he likes(or bad races from horses trained by people he likes.) Unbelievable arrogance,actually,but that's the way it is.

And what horses and trainers would those be? Do tell.

I think you are talking about War Pass - but I never can tell with you.

I've long ripped on Zito for some of the dumb things he says in interviews. And if you remember, there was a thread giving War Pass undue credit for his return race - go back and look.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

The East is nothing to get too excited about either. The Skip Away, a G3, was just demolished by Gotcha Gold with a most likely inflated Beyer of 100. Mr. Umphrey was second. Yes, Mr. Umphrey. Frost Giant, a horse I looked at and dismissed in about 2 seconds when handicapping, went off at 6 to 5. Think about that one...

......yeah, the east has some real older horse monsters

[RolloTomasi]

Just to add one more ingredient in case anyone wanted to keep the Big Booster debate alive...

He was gelded last year (as was Sun Boat) when claimed by Mike Mitchell and brought to CA.

Not sure if the public was notified in a timely manner when he paid $50, though.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Big Booster ran 8th for Mike Mitchell in his first start after he was gelded. Than came his synthetic debut win over Heatseeker.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

The synthetic to dirt move is an issue,but it's overstated.It's a concern,but not a reason to totally toss horses.Some horses are going to do well on both.A horse with a big stride (like Gayego's, for instance) might actually like the dirt better.Georgie Boy? I don't know,but I wouldn't just toss a horse with that much heart.

I agree and will be looking at a Synthetic to Dirt horse for the Derby. I can see know reason to increase your horses chances of injury before the big race you are pointing to. Racing and training on synthetics has benifits over dirt and if your horse takes to the dirt then you will cash a very nice ticket.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Big Booster ran 8th for Mike Mitchell in his first start after he was gelded. Than came his synthetic debut win over Heatseeker.

I know, I bet him. Just ran around without making a move that day. I think he was coming off a bit of a layoff that day.

Of course, I failed to bet him back.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

yes, basically thats right. the topic veered off on to Big Booster because of a throwaway statement I made about him while trying to stimulate a different discussion.

I wasn't trying to ignore what you asked. It is tough off the top of my head to list horses that fit your criteria. I think I know where you are going, and that is that horses seem fine moving from synthetic to dirt. I will agree it is more common for horses to move in that direction than vise versa.

There are plenty that don't take to dirt though. Just looking at Tuesday I found the following no name horses that seem to have a preference for synthetic. Synthetic races are in blue, dirt brown, grass green...most recent race to the left. They are overall performance ratings, each one a race, and do take into account maturation, pace, speed, etc...Beyer scale.

6  Just You and I Kid     15    40    37    39
4  Finale's Gold          44    13    21    64    54    21    48    50    57    58
6  Circular Reasoning     60    43    50    65    61    79    76    41    66    60
5  Payment in Kind        58    56    60    67    58    58    57    37    68    78
7  Jake's Da Man          29    52    62    55    63    54    59    49    67    59
8  Sterling Justice       35    39    47    33    31
7  Dancinginocidental     63    48    70    67    60    64    60    46    58    54

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I agree and will be looking at a Synthetic to Dirt horse for the Derby. I can see know reason to increase your horses chances of injury before the big race you are pointing to. Racing and training on synthetics has benifits over dirt and if your horse takes to the dirt then you will cash a very nice ticket.

I agree. I think every G1 should be contested only by firsters who have had all of their career workouts in a recovery pool.
Just think of all those fresh, healthy horses running against each other! It surely would be racing at its absolute best.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I agree and will be looking at a Synthetic to Dirt horse for the Derby. I can see know reason to increase your horses chances of injury before the big race you are pointing to. Racing and training on synthetics has benifits over dirt and if your horse takes to the dirt then you will cash a very nice ticket.

Well,here is what I do if I own either Georgie Boy,or Gayego etc.If your horse is indeed better on synthetic than dirt,then I don't think you want to find out on Derby Day.There are a lot of ways to make money with 3 year olds this year(including going back on synthetic.)For me,I would want my horse to try dirt in a race that isn't as tough (or dangerous) as the Derby.In prior years,I also would have sent them back there,because our dirt tracks weren't tiring enough to really give horses their best chance to get ready.Giacomo did it,but he had a thang for Churchill.I would run in the Arkansas Derby(not THE SANTA ANITA DERBY.) The synthetic/dirt transfer is important enough for me to want to try dirt before the Derby,but I do think it's overkill to toss horses who haven't tried dirt before trying the Derby.They are all gunna try working over Churchill.If they look awful over it,then toss.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I wasn't trying to ignore what you asked. It is tough off the top of my head to list horses that fit your criteria. I think I know where you are going, and that is that horses seem fine moving from synthetic to dirt. I will agree it is more common for horses to move in that direction than vise versa.

There are plenty that don't take to dirt though. Just looking at Tuesday I found the following no name horses that seem to have a preference for synthetic. Synthetic races are in blue, dirt brown, grass green...most recent race to the left. They are overall performance ratings, each one a race, and do take into account maturation, pace, speed, etc...Beyer scale.

6  Just You and I Kid     15    40    37    39
4  Finale's Gold          44    13    21    64    54    21    48    50    57    58
6  Circular Reasoning     60    43    50    65    61    79    76    41    66    60
5  Payment in Kind        58    56    60    67    58    58    57    37    68    78
7  Jake's Da Man          29    52    62    55    63    54    59    49    67    59
8  Sterling Justice       35    39    47    33    31
7  Dancinginocidental     63    48    70    67    60    64    60    46    58    54

yeah I know, I'm not familiar with those horses by name, I'll have to look them up. thats basically where I was going. my idea is that its not as hard for a horse in sharp form on synthetic to take to dirt, as it is for SOME dirt horses to take their sharp form to synthetic. Its kinda hard to back it up though because there is not a lot of shippers out of CA to dirt tracks.
If I pay attention to horses that ship out of Arlington this year I might be able to back it up.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I agree. I think every G1 should be contested only by firsters who have had all of their career workouts in a recovery pool.
Just think of all those fresh, healthy horses running against each other! It surely would be racing at its absolute best.

It worked for Sunnys Halo

[2Hot4TV]

Kent Desormeaux will ride Grade 1 hero GEORGIE BOY (Tribal Rule) in the April 5 Santa Anita Derby (G1), trainer Kathy Walsh announced Thursday. Michael Baze, who was suspended three days (March 24, 27 and 28) for causing interference in Sunday's 8TH race at Santa Anita, guided the dark bay gelding to his recent San Felipe S. (G2) victory after regular rider Rafael Bejarano was injured. "It was a tough call, but it was a mutual decision," Walsh explained. "Michael is a fine rider and did a good job in the San Felipe, but (owner/breeder) Mr. (George) Schwary felt a more experienced rider was in order, even though Kent is tied up for the Big Dance (May 3 Kentucky Derby [G1])."...

Is this guy nuts????