Barbaro (the Champ)

[chupster2]

Originally Posted by Scav

Actually what you might see is Bern to win HORSE of the year and Barbaro to win 3 year old of the year. I think it happened in Kitten's Joy year, but that might have been different because it involved different surfaces

Yeah, that's entirely possible too.

[Thunder Gulch]

Hey, I love Barbaro and what he did in Florida and Louisville, but this is Bernardini's championship to win or lose depending on what happens. That's just the tough reality of the race as it stands. Barbaro wouldn't be the first to go to the sidelines and lose division honors due to an injury, so let's not overstate his case and give him the sympathy vote. Voting for Barbaro at this point would be like voting for Bellamy Road after last year's Wood.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

Hey, I love Barbaro and what he did in Florida and Louisville, but this is Bernardini's championship to win or lose depending on what happens. That's just the tough reality of the race as it stands. Barbaro wouldn't be the first to go to the sidelines and lose division honors due to an injury, so let's not overstate his case and give him the sympathy vote. Voting for Barbaro at this point would be like voting for Bellamy Road after last year's Wood.

no one is suggesting it isn't bernardinis to win or lose.

but comparing barbaro to bellamy road would be like comparing bernardini to sinister minister.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

no one is suggesting it isn't bernardinis to win or lose.

but comparing barbaro to bellamy road would be like comparing bernardini to sinister minister.

wait I take offense to that...BR backed up his performance in the Wood with a corageous, albeit losing effort in the Travers. I still haven't seen Sinister Minister validate his high beyer mark with a top notch performance.

[chupster2]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

Hey, I love Barbaro and what he did in Florida and Louisville, but this is Bernardini's championship to win or lose depending on what happens. That's just the tough reality of the race as it stands. Barbaro wouldn't be the first to go to the sidelines and lose division honors due to an injury, so let's not overstate his case and give him the sympathy vote. Voting for Barbaro at this point would be like voting for Bellamy Road after last year's Wood.

Oh now that is just wrong. No way. Bellamy Road never accomplished anything near what Barbaro has and he never supported his Wood with another performance where as Barbaro proved everything he did by just getting better.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

wait I take offense to that...BR backed up his performance in the Wood with a corageous, albeit losing effort in the Travers. I still haven't seen Sinister Minister validate his high beyer mark with a top notch performance.

easy coach! i like bellamy road too..

[chupster2]

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

wait I take offense to that...BR backed up his performance in the Wood with a corageous, albeit losing effort in the Travers. I still haven't seen Sinister Minister validate his high beyer mark with a top notch performance.

He backed the fact that he had talent, but in no way indicated brilliance. Barbaro most definitely gave us glimmers of brilliance and versatility.

Originally Posted by chupster2

He backed the fact that he had talent, but in no way indicated brilliance. Barbaro most definitely gave us glimmers of brilliance and versatility.

OK, I'll reluctantly concede that notion...

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Scav

Actually what you might see is Bern to win HORSE of the year and Barbaro to win 3 year old of the year. I think it happened in Kitten's Joy year, but that might have been different because it involved different surfaces

If Bernardini wins the Breedrs Cup Classic he should be Horse of the Year and top 3 yo award.

[Suffolk Shippers]

I am probably one of the bigger Barbaro fanboys on the board, but even I must say, he really has no business in 3 Yr Old Champion voting anymore.

I think on a whole this crop of 3 yr old is somewhat thin, and Bernardini stands at the top of it as we speak. Does he beat older horses as handily as he beat some of the weak 3 yr olds? Time will tell. Barbaro's body betrayed him, and while that cannot be held against him, voting in theory that Barbaro was a lead pipe lock to win the Triple Crown and show up and win the BCC, would be an injustice to Bernardini, and an afront to the fans.

Bernardini has manhandled the 3 yr olds since May and if he goes on and wins the BCC he deserves 3 yr old champion and HOY. If he doesn't fare as well against olders, he still should be 3 yr old champion.

Barbaro has alot of things that can never be taken away from him. He was the champion of America's grandest race, winning in a fashion that to compare, needed history books to be cracked opened and examined. That alone endeared him to an entire nation, and when that nation watched him take to the track again, it wept at what it saw.

He is a champion, cut down in his prime by a fragile body. He fights everyday to see the sun rise every morning. His day to day battle inspires many. Some even see him as a "hero". Misguided or not, Barbaro is a champion of heart and determination and the 2006 Kentucky Derby. The heart and determination is a far more grand prize than a shiny Eclipse Award.

That being said, Bernardini deserves that shiny Eclipse Award.

[chupster2]

I think it's a bit strong to say he shouldn't be in the voting, myself.

A simple fact that even the most ardent of Bernardini supporters couldn't even argue is, you take Bernardini out of the races he's won and insert Barbaro, certainly you'd have to like his chances of being sucessful in those races. Now you take Babaro's wins and take him out and insert Bernardini, well I see LOTS of question marks in him being able to win those races, and THAT is what people are missing in this debate. If you're going to punish Lava Man for winning against suspect competition, then you would have to do the same thing for what Bernardini is facing.

[Independent George]

I'm still not sold on the alleged "greatness" of Bernardidni. Yesterday he beat 5 horses setting a pedestran pace. He beat 5 horses in the Dandy including Minister's Bid (2nd) and Hemingway's Key (3rd). He beat 3 horses in the Withers. The Preakness,with 8 finishers, was a race in which the entire flow changed one furlong out of the gate, though I think it was Bernardini's most impressive.
I want to see him in a race with a semi-full field (9 or 10 horses); I want to see him in a race with legitimate speed types as well as some talented late foot. Then I want to see him duplicate to some extent the ease or winning margins he's been able to do against short, suspect fields before I hang the "great" sign on him.

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

You are a very LITTLE man, small on intelligence, and lacking in class
I'd have to say, you're a piss poor individual.

Your reading comprehension seems to be severely lacking.

Take another look at my post ... I was just reporting what others are saying ... not my own personal opinion ... nor did I misreport the facts of the outcome of this year's Preakness Stakes.

If you don't want to know what's out there ... if you're uncomfortable with what has eventuated in the world ... don't get involved with an informational website like this one ... and even more important ... don't draw conclusions ... especially vulgar ones ... about members of this forum whom you don't know.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Well, yes ... but here's another way some people may look at it ...

Bernardini and Barbaro faced each other once ... and Bernardini beat him by over a mile ...

... that may convince some voters to go for Bernardini.

There was no point to this post but to rub salt into a great many wounds! This is classless no matter how you spin it! Coach is absolutely correct to call you on it...I call you on it also! My reading comprehension is pretty good...Foolish Pleasure "beat" Ruffian in the same way, don't see many folks bringing that up over the years!

Originally Posted by somerfrost

There was no point to this post but to rub salt into a great many wounds! This is classless no matter how you spin it! Coach is absolutely correct to call you on it...I call you on it also! My reading comprehension is pretty good...Foolish Pleasure "beat" Ruffian in the same way, don't see many folks bringing that up over the years!

Foolish Pleasure defeated Ruffian by considerably less than a mile ... the only loss on her otherwise splendid record ...

... while Bernardini defeated Barbaro by about a mile ... more or less depending on exactly how it's measured.

You may not like it ... but those are the facts.

It's acceptable to attack a person's opinions or beliefs ... but there's no place for attacks on anyone's character on this forum ... especially for simply reporting indisputable facts.

Shame on you ... and your buddy.

[sumitas]

Imo, Barabro is still the reigning 3 yr old at this time. If Bern was in the Fla derby is see him coming in 3rd and losing the KD to Bobby. You can't take away what Bobby did or even what he could have done. on and off the track.

[sumitas]

and Foolish Pleasure did not beat Ruffian. she was a dnf and it was a no contest, She retired undefeated.

Originally Posted by sumitas

Imo, Barabro is still the reigning 3 yr old at this time. If Bern was in the Fla derby is see him coming in 3rd and losing the KD to Bobby. You can't take away what Bobby did or even what he could have done. on and off the track.

That's amazing! What an incredible talent you have for the hypothetical.

Hey ... where would Stevie Wonderboy have finished in the Kentucky Derby? How about Corinthian and High Cotton ... where would they have finished? And how about Folklore ... suppose she were healthy and D. Wayne decided to run her against the boys?

This is fascinating ... simply fascinating!

Originally Posted by sumitas

and Foolish Pleasure did not beat Ruffian. she was a dnf and it was a no contest, She retired undefeated.

Please tell that to the American Racing Manual and the Daily Racing Form ...

... they've been reporting that Ruffian was 10 for 11.