This Upsets Me, What About You? - Page 2

kentuckyrosesinmay · #21 08-31-2006, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

Jessica--I completely agree with your opinion here and your point is well made.

You should post it under it's own thread as I am sure it would invoke the ire of one bold B.

Thanks. Should I post it under Paddock or under off topic? I won't be able to get into a debate about it tonight because I have to go to VA, but I'll be back on here tomorrow.

PeteMugg · #22 08-31-2006, 07:01 PM

Jessica, that's a good post. And I would never want to keep anyone from a good education. But a totally free ride isn't the answer. Or do you think everything is just swell down in Cuba? There's a lot to be said for good faith money. You will put greater value on an education you've worked for over an education that was just handed to you. There is a middle ground that will be the most beneficial.

AeWingnut · #23 08-31-2006, 07:25 PM

Cuba is paradise... that is why so many people are getting on little make shift rafts and leaving Florida to get there.

paisjpq · #24 08-31-2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

Cuba is paradise... that is why so many people are getting on little make shift rafts and leaving Florida to get there.

funny.

I guess I should have clarified when I said that I agreed with her that I like the ideas behind it, NOT that cuba and it's dictatorship is the way to go. Socialist/communist states allow access to free education but do not offer an unbiased education. The difference is important.

still it's a good post.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #25 08-31-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

Jessica, that's a good post. And I would never want to keep anyone from a good education. But a totally free ride isn't the answer. Or do you think everything is just swell down in Cuba? There's a lot to be said for good faith money. You will put greater value on an education you've worked for over an education that was just handed to you. There is a middle ground that will be the most beneficial.

Then why do people make As in free public schools? The people who are going to try are going to try and the people who aren't just simply aren't. You have to work for an education anyway. If you don't, you fail. If you fail, you don't get the degree. I work and take five classes. I have bills to pay. It is very hard, and my learning is often inhibited because of my work. I am not eligible for government money because my parents make too much. I can't go to the schools I want to. Nope, no Harvard or Duke for me. Luckily, I've gotten private scholarships. It is the only way that I am making it. There are tons of people who aren't. If your parent is a nurse who makes an average of about 40,000 a year, you can't get Pell Grants. The household income for being eligible for money is very, very low. You have to be dirt poor in order to receive one. There are tons of people who would love to go to college, but can't afford it. One of my friends got turned down for a Pell Grant, and so she had to keep working.

No, not everything is swell in Cuba. The U.S. has had an economic blockade on Cuba for decades because Cubais a big threat to us. Their taxes are high and their property is high, but education and health coverage are free. Their literacy rate is 99%. Ours is 92%. I agree that the way Cuba does things wouldn't work here in the U.S. and that the U.S. is a better country overall. For one we are a democracy. Yet, the U.S. may could learn a few things from Cuba. I never implied that we should be like Cuba. I just stated the fact that they have free education and high taxes.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #26 08-31-2006, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

funny.

I guess I should have clarified when I said that I agreed with her that I like the ideas behind it, NOT that cuba and it's dictatorship is the way to go. Socialist/communist states allow access to free education but do not offer an unbiased education. The difference is important.

still it's a good post.

Marx's theory explains how all capitalist countries eventually turn into socialists countries. It's something that you all should look up if you don't already know about it. I don't have time to get into it because I have to go. Good night everyone. Some good points have been made by everyone!

paisjpq · #27 08-31-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Marx's theory explains how all capitalist countries eventually turn into socialists countries. It's something that you all should look up if you don't already know about it. I don't have time to get into it because I have to go. Good night everyone. Some good points have been made by everyone!

i've read it, thanks.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #28 08-31-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

Cuba is paradise... that is why so many people are getting on little make shift rafts and leaving Florida to get there.

Where did I imply that the U.S. should be like Cuba? I just stated that they were a poor economic country who had free education. They are a dictatorship for christ sakes. The fact was used to make a point.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #29 08-31-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

i've read it, thanks.

I figured that most have.

One last question: Do you think that I implied that the U.S. should be like Cuba in my post? If so, I didn't mean it that way. I just thought that it enhanced my arguement.

Did you know that if you go to Cuba and sell anything (even an aspirin) to them...you could go to prison and pay enormous fines? Why is that? I'm directing that at everyone Pais, not just you. I want to know because I don't know why the U.S. put an economic blockade on them.

GPK · #30 08-31-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Did you know that Cuba's, yes Cuba's, college education is free for everyone? Yet, the United States is the richest country in the world. The federal government has cut down on half the money used for Pell Grants and other aids for college students recently. Do you know why? Because, it has been estimated by the time that these wars (the War on Terror, on Afganistan, and on Iraq) are over with they are going to end up costing a total of 2 trillion dollars. Do you know the good things we could do with two trillion dollars? We could have helped the victims of Katrina, or got the homeless off the streets, or had free health coverage for all...

The United States government, as a whole, doesn't value education at all. Yet, education does run this country. I want you all to think where we would be without those people who have graduated from college. No doctors, no nurses, no scientists, no stock brokers, no computer technicians...etc. Well, we're certainly headed in that direction because it is becomming harder and harder to get an education. Look at the overwhelming shortage of nurses for example. Tuition is rising and federal aid programs are being completely cut or drastically reduced. Without education, we would not be industrialized. Therefore, we would most likely be under the rule of a dictator.

We are living in the jungle folks. Yes, the jungle. These are "dangerous and challenging times". It's called capitalism, and it is going to be what inevitably destroys us; "everyone looking out for themselves" and "everone in competition with one another." There is no sense of community here. "It's do onto others before they do onto you" or "looking out for number one." When Americans' tax money goes into giving others a so-called "free ride" that benefits society as a whole, they get angry. We should be helping others, not trying to beat them. The way we are living now reminds me of Thomas Hobb's "state of nature" theory, only more civil. Members of a society are "killing" and "hurting" the other members of that same society financially. This empire, like all great empires, will inevitably fall too.

Quite frankly, I would much rather my tax money be spent on education than going to wars that we can't win. You can't FORCE democracy upon another country! Just look at Iraq. Hussein was a terrible person and a tyrant indeed, but he controlled those people over there. It wasn't in chaotic ruins like it is now. You didn't have bombs killing hundreds and thousands of people . A firm dictatorship was the only thing that worked for them. The reason that democracy won't be established in Iraq is because some of the people don't want it as they have displayed by planting explosive devices in churches and on streets. How do you beat suicide bombers? Also, Iraq is not industrialized and is in economic ruins. It has been proven time and time again throughout history, that democracy can't and won't be established until the largest class of people are the middle class in terms of economic standing. Therefore, education, wealth, cars, radios, and businesses must first be well established throughout the people. Iraq will only become a democracy when it is ready too, not because the White House thinks that it can force it.

Yes, I would rather my money go to the homeless, or to those who risk there lives serving our country, or the widows and children of those who lost their lives serving this country, or to natural disaster aid programs than into the pockets of greedy Congressmen that said, "Iraq needs democracy!" Yeah, right. I have a message to the White House, "Not very many Americans are buying into that anymore."

Wouldn't having more people who were college educated benefit society as a whole? It's just something to think about.

"you didn't have bombs killing hundreds and thousands of people" - Jessica

Your right hun....Saddam killed PLENTY more than hundreds or thousands that didn't agree with him....10,000+ at the hands of one man.

"A firm dictartorship was the only thing that worked for them" - Jessica

You call that "working for them"????.....ooooooooookay. Stick with all your horse conformation stuff, or judging, or whatever....cause politics...it ain't your thing kiddo.

paisjpq · #31 08-31-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I figured that most have.

One last question: Do you think that I implied that the U.S. should be like Cuba in my post? If so, I didn't mean it that way. I just thought that it enhanced my arguement.

Did you know that if you go to Cuba and sell anything (even an aspirin) to them...you could go to prison and pay enormous fines? Why is that? I'm directing that at everyone Pais, not just you. I want to know because I don't know why the U.S. put an economic blockade on them.

not really. though you leave yourself open for the firing squad by equating positive attributes to what is known to be an awful dictatorship...

economic sanctions and political embargoes w/communist countries are NOT my area of expertise...nor is history so you'll have to get the big questions answered elsewhere. (I'm pretty sure I have a good idea but know someone else can answer better)

GPK · #32 08-31-2006, 08:00 PM

though you leave yourself open for the firing squad by equating positive attributes to what is known to be an awful dictatorship...

LOL....YA THINK?????

kentuckyrosesinmay · #33 08-31-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

"you didn't have bombs killing hundreds and thousands of people" - Jessica

Your right hun....Saddam killed PLENTY more than hundreds or thousands that didn't agree with him....10,000+ at the hands of one man.

"A firm dictartorship was the only thing that worked for them" - Jessica

You call that "working for them"????.....ooooooooookay. Stick with all your horse conformation stuff, or judging, or whatever....cause politics...it ain't your thing kiddo.

Then why didn't we stop Saddam Hussein a long time ago? Why are we in Iraq now? All this negativety on this site towards me lately makes me not want to post on here anymore. Good night.

GPK · #34 08-31-2006, 08:03 PM

Jessica....so...because there where "no bombs killing hundreds and thousands" of people, you surely would have enjoyed living over in Iraq under Suddams dictatorship, right??? Your body fully covered from head to toe...told when and where to speak...being treated worse than a second class citizen because your a women????? Surely you would like to rethink your statements??

GPK · #35 08-31-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Then why didn't we stop Saddam Hussein a long time ago? Why are we in Iraq now? All this negativety on this site towards me lately makes me not want to post on here anymore. Good night.

Im not trying to be negative by any means.....especially towards a woman. I was raised better than that. I just find some of your thoughts and posts...umm...shocking to say the least....but you are entitled to your opinion hun, that is for sure.

2MinsToPost · #36 08-31-2006, 08:08 PM

how bout them slots

just shakin it up a little

there has been some great conversation on this thread and i am glad it has stayed civil all thru. some great intellectual conversations amoungst men and women alike, i think i mispelled something and i am too tired to use caps lock right now fyi

GPK · #37 08-31-2006, 08:09 PM

Ok....I VERY RARELY talk politics on this board and I just met this years quota in 3 or 4 threads....I'm done.

#38 08-31-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

Today I was listening to a local talk radio station. They had someone on who is from the Learn and Earn Program, which is a group that is helping spearhead the ballot in the upcoming election to allow slots at Ohio Racetracks. She started out talking about our two local tracks, of course those are Beulah Park and Scioto Downs. Beulah is privately owned and Scioto is now owned by Mountaineer Gaming, they purchased Scioto I believe 2 years ago. She talked about the 200 Million dollars in improvements the owner and management of Beulah plan to put in place. Those include a nice hotel, covered parking and of course some nice restaurants. She did not go into detail about the improvements at Scioto, but did give mention, thank goodness, to the improvement in purses for the Horsemen. On to what upsets me.

A good portion of the revenue they will be receiving from slots will be going to a program so that many a college student will not have to pay tuition. She mentioned an example of how they would like to see in the future a 4 year students tuition expense at least cut in half. She then went on about how too many college graduates are forced to live almost in poverty as they stuggle to pay their college loans. Now, what upsets me is this..............

Since when are we, the Ohio Taxpayers, responsible for footing the bill for all these college students? Granted, not everyone plays the slots but I cant help but think that they will be dipping into other gambling revenue as well, i.e. Horse Racing. even if they don't dip into the Horse Racing money pool, why should the slot revenue go to what ultimately is the college students and parents responsibility? Welcome to life in the real world. Maybe your parents should have thought twice before buying that $200,000 home they could not afford. Maybe they should not have driven those brand new SUV's and Toyota Camry's they could hardly afford. Maybe you should have thought twice before you bought little Johnny that $15,000 Mustang when he turned 16. That $15,000 would put a great dent in that tuition.

I know there are under privaledged kids out there who bust their tail thru school who are in a home life where the parents can't afford to put them in college. I agree that they deserve some help. But for me to think that their is a program out there that wants to help EVERY single college student with revenue from slots, that burns me. That is not the slot players responsibilty. That is not the taxpayers responsibility. That is not the Horse Players responsibility. That is the parents and college students. Maybe once that college student graduates and has to think about paying on that loan, maybe instead of going out and buying a new car and getting married and having two kids that they could go out and buy a nice used car for a thousand or two and live in a modest apartment paying on that loan. Not too mention not having any kids till they are financially sound.

But no, the public is going to help carry that burden.

Anybody feel what I am trying to convey here?

Pardon me but this is a ridiculous thing to get mad about and quite possibly the dumbest thing I ever read on this board.
Number 1) Its just a way to appease those who are against slot machines by sticking some of the money at education. fact is that they may hev been able to get the slots approved without the education/tuition rider and then noone would get the benefit.
Number 2) The "taxpayers" of Ohio aren't going to play those slot machines to support anyone. Everyone of the sickos who pull those levers are going there to try and win money!!! The fact that may lose and where the money goes is of little to no concern to them.
number 3) Yeah I suffered putting myself through school as well, and wish noone the misery of it. I don't think that just because I suffered and struggled to pay my way through that it means that others should have to. Its idiotic. Most students do far better in school with less financial strain.

So to sum it up in a very simple no bull**** manner, some sickies are gonna go to pull the levers hoping to win money. The sickies are gonna lose a lot more than they win. Some of what they lose will go to cut tuition costs so that students will have to pay less to get an education. Gee, that doesnt sound like something most people will lose sleep over tonight.

2MinsToPost · #39 08-31-2006, 08:27 PM

"the dumbest thing I have ever read on this board"

mike if i had a dollar for every time you have used that line i would have a couple hundred dollars to throw at some pick 4 this weekend

#40 08-31-2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

"the dumbest thing I have ever read on this board"

mike if i had a dollar for every time you have used that line i would have a couple hundred dollars to throw at some pick 4 this weekend

Well since you wrote most of em you'd deserve the dollars!!!