Finally ... At Last ... A Real Handicap Race

[whorstman]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

It's "bated" breath ... to bate means to restrain, to modulate ... unless ...

... unless ... as we may suspect ... you have worms in your throat ... in which case your breath may indeed be baited.

Which one of you is the "Master" of that word.

Originally Posted by six perfections

Beginning a sentence with but is a no no.
Is that usual to carry that much weight? It seems mean.

I was continuing your sentence.

Hurdlers carry more weight because it requires a bigger, stronger jockey to control them. The 164 pounds which Hirapour carried is a lot ... but ...

... America's greatest steeplechase horse ... Neji ... won twice while carrying 173 pounds, placed three times with 175, and won seven times carrying 161 to 168 pounds ... from 1954 through 1959.

Now that ... was a race horse!

[prudery]

Hurdle horses and steeplechaser's carry more weight than flat racers but NOT because they need " bigger, stronger " riders . Totally false . Jump races hark back to the days when people hunted their horses and were a competitive spin off . The weights reflect what the horses carried to hounds with their non-jockey owners up . Often, in the old days, races over fences were contested with non-professionals up, or " gentleman " riders . This happened in flat races as well, but the riders had to make flat weights . In modern times, several flat jockeys rode in jump races . Hartack rode in one and won, anfd Jacinto Vasquez finished second in another . They carried a lot of lead in their saddles . Obviously with the weights, riders do not have to be little and weigh what a flat jockey weighs In the past, occassionally a flat jockey who couldn't make weight turned to steeplechasing .

Originally Posted by prudery

Hurdle horses and steeplechaser's carry more weight than flat racers but NOT because they need " bigger, stronger " riders . Totally false . Jump races hark back to the days when people hunted their horses and were a competitive spin off . The weights reflect what the horses carried to hounds with their non-jockey owners up . Often, in the old days, races over fences were contested with non-professionals up, or " gentleman " riders . This happened in flat races as well, but the riders had to make flat weights . In modern times, several flat jockeys rode in jump races . Hartack rode in one and won, anfd Jacinto Vasquez finished second in another . They carried a lot of lead in their saddles . Obviously with the weights, riders do not have to be little and weigh what a flat jockey weighs In the past, occassionally a flat jockey who couldn't make weight turned to steeplechasing .

You're "flat" wrong about the jumpers ... ... but ... no surprise there ... "gentlemen riders" went out turpentine and linoleum ... and so did any reason ... other than control ... for maintaining higher weights.

How about that Neji? Ever see him run? I did.

[my miss storm cat]

From DRF....

Hirapour injured
By MIKE KANE
Hirapour, the steeplechase champion of 2004, was injured in the New York Turf Writers Cup on Thursday at Saratoga, possibly ending his career a few months earlier than expected.
Trainer Doug Fout said that the 10-year gelding, who was scheduled to be retired at the end of the season, came out of the race with damage to his right front ankle and was lame Friday morning.

"Unfortuantely, I think he might have a chip in his ankle," Fout said.

Fout said he did not know whether surgery would be needed. Hirapour was sent to Morven Park in Leesburg, Va., Friday to be examined. He underwent surgery on his left front ankle in November and returned to competition on Aug. 10 with a victory in the A.P. Smithwick at Saratoga

The Grade 1 Turf Writers Cup was the first major test on a schedule that Fout hoped would yield another Eclipse Award for the Eldon Farm-owned gelding. Hirapour, carrying high weight of 164 pounds, and rider Matthew McCarron sat back in the pack, several lengths off the pace set by Mark the Shark for almost two miles. When McCarron put him in position to make his run entering the backstretch the final time, Hirapour nearly fell going over the fence and then had no response.

"He jumped the first on the back badly, sort of stabbed at it," Fout said, "and Matt said he went from a ton of horse to absolutely nothing, nothing in the tank at all. Something had to happen there."

Too bad ...

... he had a lot of talent ... but was not overly consistent.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

You're "flat" wrong about the jumpers ... ... but ... no surprise there ... "gentlemen riders" went out turpentine and linoleum ... and so did any reason ... other than control ... for maintaining higher weights.

How about that Neji? Ever see him run? I did.

Someone has a reading comprehension disorder, amongst other things . Today's riders are of course, professionals but the weights they ride at and their size evolved from the people that rode their horses to hounds . I stand by the truth of my statement . Steeplechase horses are the same horses that run on the flat . As any rider or person with knowledge of riding can tell you the size and weight of the rider have nothing to do with control . Riding is one sport where women can compete equally with men and then some . Some of the best Grand Prix jumping riders are and were women . Marge Goldstein and Kathy Kusner are both small women . Neji ran on the flat before his jumping career . So you saw him run . An excellent animal and a great weight carrier . Before my time . So, you are still wrong . Wrong about turpentine-based linoleum as welll . It is having a renaissance with the renovation set as a desirable and more organic flooring with excellent esthetic options and durability . Where the bigger, stronger rider theory for jump races came from is laughable . Which end of you did that come out of ????

Originally Posted by prudery

Someone has a reading comprehension disorder, amongst other things . Today's riders are of course, professionals but the weights they ride at and their size evolved from the people that rode their horses to hounds . I stand by the truth of my statement . Steeplechase horses are the same horses that run on the flat . As any rider or person with knowledge of riding can tell you the size and weight of the rider have nothing to do with control . Riding is one sport where women can compete equally with men and then some . Some of the best Grand Prix jumping riders are and were women . Marge Goldstein and Kathy Kusner are both small women . Neji ran on the flat before his jumping career . So you saw him run . An excellent animal and a great weight carrier . Before my time . So, you are still wrong . Wrong about turpentine-based linoleum as welll . It is having a renaissance with the renovation set as a desirable and more organic flooring with excellent esthetic options and durability . Where the bigger, stronger rider theory for jump races came from is laughable . Which end of you did that come out of ????

Riiiiiiiight ... now show jumping is the equivalent of race riding.

Sure it is. And that accounts for all the great female steeplechase riders.

Hey ... why don't you ask Blythe Miller ... who almost got herself killed on several occasions ... before finally wising up and chucking it?

Steeplechase race riding isn't for little girls ... it's for big strong men.

[prudery]

What you know about riding anything but the short bus would fit on the head of a pin . Big, strong men vs. little girls--it would be laughable if only you did not believe it . Riders of both sexes bail out of steeplechasing for the same reason-danger . Danger and injuries . No one was comparing showjumping with jump races, except one might consider the control issues there-far beyond your scope , Better to consider cross country jumping, and all the successful women there . Better yet, not to argue with a concrete mind mired in its own specious and self-righteous swamp . This was your most flatulently false offering yet . BTW, Danielle Hodson rode the winner of the race in question .

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

It's the New York Turf Writers' Cup today at Saratoga.

Champion and highweight Hirapour ... gives 10 pounds to the second highweight ... and 26 pounds to the two low weights ... and ... it's not a 5f sprint ... these boys are going 19f over the jumps.

And look at the weights ... Hirapour 164 ... low weights 138.

What a contrast to today's usual "handicaps" ... where the "highweight" carries 118 pounds ... and "gives" three whole pounds to the "low weight."

God bless the jumpers ... the last of the professional thoroughbred race horses.

Man BB loves playing the gadfly.
I guess its entertaining, but predictable.