Question re: Sky Mesa

[Betsy]

Ok, I'm having a disagreement at Thoroughbred Champions. We were discussing Pulpit and his sons as sires and I said (and I adore Pulpit) that Sky Mesa is mediocre at best (well, that's the essence of what I said). Others think he's a bargain and they started listing some of his stakes horses (which anyone can do with any sire). I can't think of one really top-class horse that Sky Mesa has sired, but those folks seem to think breeders love him and for a reason.

Am I wrong? Thanks!

[Indian Charlie]

You are wrong to get into disagreements/discussions/arguments on TBC.

[Round Pen]

Yes

[miraja2]

Other than General Quarters, who have his G1 winners been? I think there are one or two more, but I can't really think of who they are.
I would say he seems pretty good for a mid-range sire, but hasn't been astoundingly great thus far.

[VOL JACK]

Did that Klesaris filly win a G1?

[VOL JACK]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-r...n=singlesearch

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Yes

Ok, care to explain why?

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

You are wrong to get into disagreements/discussions/arguments on TBC.

Probably so. Someone is just trying to make the argument that Sky Diva ran well in the Demoiselle a couple of years ago because she finished 3rd. Ugh - she was awful that day.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-r...n=singlesearch

Thanks!

He's not awful, but IMO he's no great shakes - as Miraja said.

[Echo Farm]

The big question: Is Jas' avatar a self portrait?

[Cannon Shell]

Who are you measuring Sky Mesa against?

He was the leading second crop stallion in 2008 and was the second leading third crop sire last year.

His oldest horses are only 5 years old so you are judging him on three crops of horses.

He had 74 winners last year
His runners have earned $10 million dollars after a soft 1st year of only 500k.

General Quarters (Gr1)
Terrain (Gr3)
Sky Diva (Gr1)
Skylighter (gr2)
Storm Mesa (gr2)
Satans Quick Chick (gr2)
Third Dawn (sw/gsp)
Sky Haven (sw/gsp)
Beethoven (sw/gsp)
Thiskyhasnolimit (sw/gsp)
Matchless orinda (sw)
Sky Mystic (sw)
Join in the Dance (gsp)
Processors Turf (gsp)
Formidible (gsp)
Stealin kisses (gsp)
Argyle Pink (gsp)

his yearlings averaged 88k last year
his 2 yos in training avg 100k last year and 248k this year


Yeah he sucks

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Betsy

Probably so. Someone is just trying to make the argument that Sky Diva ran well in the Demoiselle a couple of years ago because she finished 3rd. Ugh - she was awful that day.

So one horse was "awful" in your opinion in one race after that same horse had already wne a grade 1 race and finished third in the Breeders Cup. This is the basis of your argument that Sky Mesa 'is no great shakes' as a stallion?

[richard]

Does he sire sound offspring ?

[Linny]

Considering his ability at two and his VERY good pedigree and female family, it's fair to say that more was expected but Chuck is right. His babies have sold pretty well and while he hasn't has a "big" horse he's done OK. The ones that can run a little seem to be able to get you to stakes.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So one horse was "awful" in your opinion in one race after that same horse had already wne a grade 1 race and finished third in the Breeders Cup. This is the basis of your argument that Sky Mesa 'is no great shakes' as a stallion?

That's not what I said at all, but if you want to think that was my point, go right ahead.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who are you measuring Sky Mesa against?

He was the leading second crop stallion in 2008 and was the second leading third crop sire last year.

His oldest horses are only 5 years old so you are judging him on three crops of horses.

He had 74 winners last year
His runners have earned $10 million dollars after a soft 1st year of only 500k.

General Quarters (Gr1)
Terrain (Gr3)
Sky Diva (Gr1)
Skylighter (gr2)
Storm Mesa (gr2)
Satans Quick Chick (gr2)
Third Dawn (sw/gsp)
Sky Haven (sw/gsp)
Beethoven (sw/gsp)
Thiskyhasnolimit (sw/gsp)
Matchless orinda (sw)
Sky Mystic (sw)
Join in the Dance (gsp)
Processors Turf (gsp)
Formidible (gsp)
Stealin kisses (gsp)
Argyle Pink (gsp)

his yearlings averaged 88k last year
his 2 yos in training avg 100k last year and 248k this year


Yeah he sucks

Just what is your problem? I asked a perfectly reasonable question and was polite in doing so; I don't need a medal for that, but I sure as heck don't deserve the kind of response you gave me. Yeah, that sure is a list of great horses. Most of them are mediocre and if they were in graded stakes races, you wouldn't give them any sort of shot. Formidable? Is he high on your list of top sprinters this year? Seriously, take any stallion and he's going to have horses that placed in stakes. Most of this board thinks Friesan Fire is a joke - at best a grade 3 horse, and even at that, only at the Fair Grounds. What does that make GQ? Are you going to tell me he's a top class horse? Skylighter won a weak grade 2 and Storm Mesa couldn't beat grade 1 fillies every time she ran in a grade 1 race. Join in the Dance hasn't won in a dogs age; what's so special about him? You make it sound like this list is full of top horses - it's not.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Linny

Considering his ability at two and his VERY good pedigree and female family, it's fair to say that more was expected but Chuck is right. His babies have sold pretty well and while he hasn't has a "big" horse he's done OK. The ones that can run a little seem to be able to get you to stakes.

I think he must own a stableful of Sky Mesas because he took my question way too personally. Sky Mesa has not sired a lot of top class horses. If you want a sprinter, are you breeding to him? No. If you want a classic horse, are you breeding to him? No. If you want a grass horse, are you breeding to him? No. He's ok, but the whole point is that on TBC, they made him out to be some great success story. Tapit is already a much better sire than Sky Mesa.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Sky Mesa was doing HORRIBLE with his first crop of 2yo's in Feb of their 3yo season.

It was at the time of the Fasig Tipton Calder 2yo sale ... and the craziest thing happened. The under-tack show was like a freaking showcase of Sky Mesa's like nothing you've ever seen before.

I had something like 5 different Sky Mesa offspring in the top 20 most impressive breezes. I was telling people that if you had to approach the sale as a buyer ... without a doubt the best thing to do would be to find out who the lowest regarded Sky Mesa offspring was of those 5 on looks - and buy him.

They might pay up for the best looking Sky Mesa of the five - they might even pay up for the 2nd best looking Sky Mesa - but they ain't paying up for the one who's 5th of 5 on looks and pedigree because he was doing so dismally at stud.

As it turned out ... the 5th cheapest of that sensational band of Sky Mesa offspring was none other than Ky Derby pace setter Join in the Dance.

He RNA'd for just 90K despite showing super raw speed in his preview.

I believe Grade 1 winner Sky Diva was 4th at 250K. I know that Mesa Sunrise sold for 800K ... he was the most expensive of the Sky Mesa's at that sale. His biggest achievement is nothing more than winning a Saratoga alw race in 1:15 flat for 6.5fs. One of the ones that sold for like 300K went to Japan and I believe is a stakes winner over there.

[Danzig]

note to self:

when someone wants to know if they're wrong, don't answer!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Chances are ... if she posts it .. it's probably wrong.