4/10 (KEE): Blue Grass, Commonwealth, Wiley, Shakertown

[jms62]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

i'm with you. like i said in another thread , that poly track is like betting finger lakes. yes, freaky things happen on dirt but not like it does on that rat trap track. lets see how this horse runs (stately victor) in three weeks. i may be wrong but my prediction is yet another blue grass winner that pulls up the rear. what used to be a great dirt track is now an absolute joke. zito is right, why prep there, unless you don't need the money and its just a training move ala street sense. if you are seriously trying to win that race as a foundation for the derby as a trainer you would be out of your mind to go there. the entries each year increasingly prove this. that was the crappiest field i can remember for the race. the favorites were interactif (grass horse) and paddy o prado(another grade 3 grass). oh yeah, a stellar edition for 750,000.....lol. once again, i'm kicking myself for even attempting to bet that garbage yesterday. it was the first main track bet i made there since the meet opened!

Gotta love the whiners that complain to high heaven about poly but bet it anyway..

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by jms62

Gotta love the whiners that complain to high heaven about poly but bet it anyway..

Hey, simple things for simple people. The Arkansas Derby, with it's 1-2-3 around the track result, and the winner coming again after getting passed in the lane, is right up their alley. Now, that's good/fair/predictable racing.

In fact, all racing should really be like the AQU INNER track.

[The Bid]

Hes a crow.

hes fully extended. Amazing that he gets anything at all. He will be a zero factor in L'ville. finish last 17-18-19-20th.

Yes you are wrong. You usually are wrong. It wouldnt matter where that horse was hes not passing anything.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Hes a crow.

hes fully extended. Amazing that he gets anything at all. He will be a zero factor in L'ville. finish last 17-18-19-20th.

Yes you are wrong. You usually are wrong. It wouldnt matter where that horse was hes not passing anything.

If the jockey rides him the right way yesterday he is a winner.

[The Bid]

Wouldnt matter how the jockey rides him. Hes fully extended

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Wouldnt matter how the jockey rides him. Hes fully extended

Your wrong... Your calling a Grade 1 winner a crow. Multiple wins at the best meet in the country. His comeback race this year is the way he needs to be ridden. TT looked like he was going to **** his pants, at any point he could have tucked in behind the top 2, but instead he presses wide the entire trip. You dont win races that way.

[The Bid]

Good horse with no limitation runs right by those. He was ridden like the best horse in the race. He was the best horse in that race to a mile. Past a mile forget about this horse being a factor with anything regardless of the ride he gets.

[The Bid]

Drugs knows what hes looking at. I can't imagine him thinking a good horse doesn't pass if there is no limitation. He was ridden like the best horse in the race. Thompson's ride had nothing to do with him not winning that race. He gave him a fine trip, and a fine ride

Drug's has a more valid opinion than you do. You throw 200 darts and hope one sticks. Drugs makes a stand on a horse and gives his reasons for liking or disliking whether I agree or not. Anybody can respect a substatiated opinion from somebody whos well studied and has a clue.

You make unsubstatiated opinons on horses, trainers, and then outright call a guy a crook that you have never dealt with in any capacity. Who would think anything you say has validity.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Good horse with no limitation runs right by those. He was ridden like the best horse in the race. He was the best horse in that race to a mile. Past a mile forget about this horse being a factor with anything regardless of the ride he gets.

The problem is that there are very, very few 'good horses with no limitations'. What do you think this is Zenyatta? The fact of the matter is that nothing was winning off the pace in that race. They went 1-2-3 around the track and nothing passed in the lane (at least nothing that passed stayed ahead). If Dublin sits a perfect drafting trip and comes out very late, after Super Saver bids, he wins the race. But there's no jock (other than Dominguez) that rides that way on dirt (unless forced to as a result of trouble).

I think that Dublin got it bad in the race and Noble's Promise got it even worse, as he was squeezed at the break and checked bad on the 1st turn, losing even more position/ground. He was then forced to run in the middle of the race to catch up.

I don't know about anyone else but I tend to give horses another chance, or, at least, I don't consider them plugs, when they're forced to run against the grain, since so few actually do so.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

The problem is that there are very, very few 'good horses with no limitations'. What do you think this is Zenyatta? The fact of the matter is that nothing was winning off the pace in that race. They went 1-2-3 around the track and nothing passed in the lane (at least nothing that passed stayed ahead). If Dublin sits a perfect drafting trip and comes out very late, after Super Saver bids, he wins the race. But there's no jock (other than Dominguez) that rides that way on dirt (unless forced to as a result of trouble).

I think that Dublin got it bad in the race and Noble's Promise got it even worse, as he was squeezed at the break and checked bad on the 1st turn, losing even more position/ground. He was then forced to run in the middle of the race to catch up.

I don't know about anyone else but I tend to give horses a 2nd chance when they're forced to run against the grain since so few actually do so.

I agree with most of this, but he has done this the last few times. He seems like a horse that's good enough to just miss. Will his price be big enough in the Derby to hope he finally gets the perfectly timed trip?

[The Bid]

TFM

He was certainly put into a drive early enough to get to those horses. He just looks flat late to me. Even if TT drafted and came out I do not think he runs past them. Not because of the track, not because those other 2 are good horses, I just think hes beyond his scope. He just doesn't punch on at all.

He will be a total non factor in the Derby.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Drugs knows what hes looking at. I can't imagine him thinking a good horse doesn't pass if there is no limitation. He was ridden like the best horse in the race. Thompson's ride had nothing to do with him not winning that race. He gave him a fine trip, and a fine ride

Drug's has a more valid opinion than you do. You throw 200 darts and hope one sticks. Drugs makes a stand on a horse and gives his reasons for liking or disliking whether I agree or not. Anybody can respect a substatiated opinion from somebody whos well studied and has a clue.

You make unsubstatiated opinons on horses, trainers, and then outright call a guy a crook that you have never dealt with in any capacity. Who would think anything you say has validity.

Absolutely priceless! Bravo Bid!

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by The Bid

TFM

He was certainly put into a drive early enough to get to those horses. He just looks flat late to me. Even if TT drafted and came out I do not think he runs past them. Not because of the track, not because those other 2 are good horses, I just think hes beyond his scope. He just doesn't punch on at all.

He will be a total non factor in the Derby.

So there's no misunderstanding, he's definitely a horse that needs help to get to the wire 1st. I can make an 'excuse' for him yesterday but the fact remains that if he has to do a good portion of the running in the race, he's just not getting it done. He needs an 'escort'. He's already demonstrated that he can't run against the grain (to this point). And, like you, I prefer to bet on those horses that have shown the ability to do so.

Of course, in the Derby, there are numerous cases of horses just like him that ended up getting the perfect setup -- and this is what DrugS is probably getting at.