Crist: The great distaffers..

[Smooth Operator]

Cannon ... you must've backed FT for '97 HotY ... right?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Cannon ... you must've backed FT for '97 HotY ... right?

I dont remember caring much

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I too thought RA deserved the HoY because the sum of her accomplishments were greater than Zenyatta's which were almost all tied into one race. The closeness of the vote was probably due to the fact that many of the voters are witless and the fact that Zenyatta's race was much more recent when they cast their votes. If you unemotionally look at the pp's for the 2 horses last year it is hard to make a case that Zenyatta had a better year or accomplished more than RA did.

i agree, rachel did more and shes paying a price for it. she deserved HOY for pushing the envelope to the limit. but, these people are ruled by emotions and don't even see the weakness in that when gambling. the best horses rachel beat were chump change to zenyatta. someone said zenyatta beat a weak field in the classic...those horses were way better than macho again and bullsbay and she did it at 10 furlongs. this year theres no comparison, so far, rachel lost to zenyatta's sparring partner. a horse thats not even in her league as she rolled past her last sunday. the other horse that beat rachel comes back and loses convincingly at belmont. meanwhile, zenyatta wins and wins dirt or poly. comparing this years pp's is like apples and oranges. the emotions coming out are people crying over the obvious.......lol

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

i agree, rachel did more and shes paying a price for it. she deserved HOY for pushing the envelope to the limit. but, these people are ruled by emotions and don't even see the weakness in that when gambling. the best horses rachel beat were chump change to zenyatta. someone said zenyatta beat a weak field in the classic...those horses were way better than macho again and bullsbay and she did it at 10 furlongs. this year theres no comparison, so far, rachel lost to zenyatta's sparring partner. a horse thats not even in her league as she rolled past her last sunday. the other horse that beat rachel comes back and loses convincingly at belmont. meanwhile, zenyatta wins and wins dirt or poly. comparing this years pp's is like apples and oranges. the emotions coming out are people crying over the obvious.......lol

I dispute that RA is paying any price for anything. If both horses competition is considered soft, does it really matter whose was softer? It is still not up to par when you compare these horses to other great horses. I can't find much fault in RA's campaign last year because even though the fields she faced were at least below average for those races, she competed in races that really matter. The Preakness, Haskell, and Woodward are far more prestigious that anything that Zenyatta ever ran in besides a BC race. Sadly that remains true and looks like it wont change.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by HomerS

So do we take that to next "logical" place and discount sprinters and turf horses? Is greatness only granted to routers on real dirt?

Safely Kept was a great horse nowhere on Crists list- she should have been.

She was on the honorable mentions list:

Honorable mention among the more than 100 female champions of this era who are not listed above include, at the very least, these 10: Estrapade, Hollywood Wildcat, It's In The Air, Landaluce, Pebbles, Royal Heroine, Safely Kept, Turkish Trousers, What a Summer and Xtra Heat.

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by HomerS

So do we take that to next "logical" place and discount sprinters and turf horses? Is greatness only granted to routers on real dirt?

Safely Kept was a great horse nowhere on Crists list- she should have been.

no, why would you do that? did we just start running sprints and turf races less than 5 years ago?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

She was on the honorable mentions list:

Honorable mention among the more than 100 female champions of this era who are not listed above include, at the very least, these 10: Estrapade, Hollywood Wildcat, It's In The Air, Landaluce, Pebbles, Royal Heroine, Safely Kept, Turkish Trousers, What a Summer and Xtra Heat.

Eddie D mentioned Hollywood Wildcat didn't like Churchill downs, otherwise she might have been on that list.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

She was on the honorable mentions list:

Honorable mention among the more than 100 female champions of this era who are not listed above include, at the very least, these 10: Estrapade, Hollywood Wildcat, It's In The Air, Landaluce, Pebbles, Royal Heroine, Safely Kept, Turkish Trousers, What a Summer and Xtra Heat.

By the way would Safetly Kept still have won the BC sprint, had the euro sprinter Dayjur not jumped his tracks with the win just yds away in his grasp? I don't know I thought Meafara was more impressive in her 2 BC Sprint races.

[CSC]

How about Meadow Star? Honorable mention? Hard to think of a more impressive 2 yr old season than hers.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Assuming that he didnt start taking hgh before he was a Yankee, no doubt his best years were pre HGH.

I think he was linked to a Toronto Trainer when he was with the Blue Jays, he definitely was bulkier post Boston Red Sox. The guy is also a big time azz that would rival Ben Roethlisberger.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by HomerS

So do we take that to next "logical" place and discount sprinters and turf horses? Is greatness only granted to routers on real dirt?

Safely Kept was a great horse nowhere on Crists list- she should have been.

Female sprinters and female turf horses don't get their due because people don't care as much for for those divisions and because there are fewer Grade 1's out there to pile up the resume with.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Female sprinters and female turf horses don't get their due because people don't care as much for for those divisions and because there are fewer Grade 1's out there to pile up the resume with.

Which is a shame. Grade 1s are not the only determination to greatness.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

THanks for posting this, I tryed 2 LOL.
Im kinda suprised a throwback like Serling would say Rachel and Z would have destroyed this one... I have a list of about 15 more just in the last 15 years... A thread is coming tomorrow.

Jersey Girl toyed with Banshee Breeze

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I know....I was just joking around.

And he did beat Gulch and Precisionist in the Tom Fool.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by CSC

How about Meadow Star? Honorable mention? Hard to think of a more impressive 2 yr old season than hers.

I can think of several.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I can think of several.

Let's examine her stakes win as a 2 yr old, those among she beat were Hall of Famers Dance Smartly and Flawlessly. She was pretty prolific as a 2 yr old.

1990 G1 BREEDERS CUP JUVENILE FILLIES
1990 G3 ASTORIA STAKES
1990 G1 SPINAWAY STAKES
1990 G1 MATRON STAKES
1990 G1 FRIZETTE STAKES
1990 G2 SCHUYLERVILLE STAKES

As a 3 yr old, defeated Lite Lite, Versailles Treaty and Do it in Style, before fizzling out to end her career.

Here's one of her more memorable races The Mother Goose duel with Lite Lite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efSTvXN98A0
1991 G2 COMELY STAKES
1991 G1 MOTHER GOOSE STAKES
1991 G1 ACORN STAKES

[Indian Charlie]

Landaluce and Go for Wand come to mind.

I could make a case for Halfbridled.

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Landaluce and Go for Wand come to mind.

I could make a case for Halfbridled.

flanders was a pretty good 2 year old. maybe not as good as landaluce or go for wand, but she did outgame serenas song while injured.