Crist: The great distaffers..

[Kasept]

Terrific chart from Steve Crist in Saturday's CristBlog to help widen the debate about the best female runners over the past 40 years...

It excellent that this topic can help fans/players with modest historical appreciations gain wider awareness of racing's past to help better interpret and compare eras and careers. To help fuel the discussion here, the list Crist assembled (Is missing a couple here and there, like Waya, that some of his blog commenters brought up...):

Creme de les Femmes

Filly/Mare (Yrs Ran) St./1st-Earnings [G1] [HOTY-Eclipse] [HOF] CAL-KY-NY

ACTIVE-Goldikova 2007-2010 17 12 $4,478,978 9 2009 n/a 2 0 0
ACTIVE-Rachel Alexandra (2008-2010) 17/12 ($3,206,730) 5 [2009-2009] n/a 0-9-2
ACTIVE-Zenyatta 2007-2010 17 17 $6,074,580 11 2008-09 n/a 15 0 0

Indian Blessing 2007-2009 16 10 $2,995,420 5 2007-08 n/a 4 0 8
Rags to Riches 2006-2007 7 5 $1,342,528 4 2007 n/a 3 2 2
Ouija Board 2003-2006 22 10 $6,334,296 7 2004-06 n/a 0 1 1
Ashado 2003-2005 21 12 $3,711,440 7 2004-05 n/a 1 2 13
Azeri 2001-2005 24 17 $4,079,820 11 2002 2002-3-4 2010 13 2 4

Riboletta 1998-2000 28 13 $1,555,103 7 2000 ---- 14 1 2
Silverbulletday 1998-2000 23 15 $3,093,207 5 1998-99 2009 2 10 4
Serena's Song 1994-1996 38 18 $3,283,388 10 1995 2002 14 8 9
Inside Information 1993-1995 17 14 $1,641,806 6 1995 2008 0 3 9
Heavenly Prize 1993-1996 18 9 $1,825,940 8 1994 ---- 1 1 12
Sky Beauty 1992-1995 21 15 $1,336,000 10 1994 ---- 1 1 18
Paseana 1990-1995 36 19 $3,171,203 11 1992-93 2001 21 2 1
Flawlessly 1990-1994 28 16 $2,572,536 8 1992-93 2004 18 0 7
Dance Smartly 1990-1992 17 12 $3,263,836 7 1991 2003 0 1 1

Go For Wand 1989-1990 13 10 $1,373,338 7 1989-90 1996 0 3 9
Open Mind 1988-1990 19 12 $1,844,372 7 1988-89 ---- 0 2 10
Bayakoa 1987-1991 39 21 $2,817,524 13 1989-90 1998 22 2 2
Winning Colors 1987-1989 19 8 $1,526,837 3 1988 2000 7 4 6
Personal Ensign 1986-1988 13 13 $1,679,880 8 1988 1993 0 1 11
Miesque 1986-1988 16 12 $1,987,514 10 1987-88 1999 1 1 0
Lady's Secret 1984-1987 45 25 $3,021,425 11 1986 1986 1990 15 0 21
Mom's Command 1984-1985 16 11 $902,972 5 1985 2007 0 0 9
Life's Magic 1983-1985 32 8 $2,255,218 5 1984-85 ---- 11 2 16
Princess Rooney 1982-1984 21 17 $1,343,339 5 1984 1991 6 5 2
All Along 1981-1984 21 9 $3,015,764 5 1983 1983 1992 1 0 2
Genuine Risk 1979-1981 15 10 $646,587 2 1980 1986 0 1 12

Bold 'n Determined 1979-1981 20 16 $949,599 7 --- 1997 7 4 5
Davona Dale 1978-1980 18 11 $641,642 5 1979 1985 0 1 10
Ruffian 1974-1975 11 10 $313,429 5 1974-75 1976 0 0 10
Chris Evert 1973-1975 15 10 $679,475 3 1974 1988 3 1 11
Dahlia 1972-1976 48 15 $1,543,139 10 1974 1981 12 0 2
Desert Vixen 1972-1975 28 13 $421,538 6 1973-74 1979 0 1 20
La Prevoyante 1972-1974 39 25 $572,417 n/a 1972 1995 0 3 9
Susan's Girl 1971-1975 63 29 $1,251,667 n/a 1973-75 1976 27 7 19
Shuvee 1967-1971 44 16 $890,445 n/a 1970-71 1975 0 0 38

[CSC]

I didn't realize Personal Ensign only raced once out of N.Y, this made me smile because I found this ironic in light of the Zenyatta debate.

[slotdirt]

Really? You didn't realize this? Because it was discussed ad nauseum in various spots on DT.com where you were posting thoughout last week.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by CSC

I didn't realize Personal Ensign only raced once out of N.Y, this made me smile because I found this ironic in light of the Zenyatta debate.

She raced twice outside of NY.

Regardless, why didn't you bring up Lady's Secret, as she should be the horse that Zenyatta is linked to being that she usurped Lady's Secret's legacy at Oak Tree?

I don't recall.....what was her geographic distribution?

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

She raced twice outside of NY.

Regardless, why didn't you bring up Lady's Secret, as she should be the horse that Zenyatta is linked to being that she usurped Lady's Secret's legacy at Oak Tree?

I don't recall.....what was her geographic distribution?

The last three numbers following each horse are the starts in Cal-Ky-NY

[Kasept]

The distribution Crist used was just CA, KY and NY, so in terms of that, it wouldn't include BC's in FL or MTH, LS, etc., or other significant stakes at Arlington, Fair Grounds, Hialeah-Gulfstream, et al, for example...

[randallscott35]

I would take Riboletta over Zenyatta every day of the week.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

The last three numbers following each horse are the starts in Cal-Ky-NY

I was being facetious.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I would take Riboletta over Zenyatta every day of the week.

Not on synth, maybe, but Riboletta was faster on dirt.....by a city block.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I was being facetious.

I thought so but no harm in taking it at face value. Interesting list of the three that never raced in NY and never will.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

I thought so but no harm in taking it at face value. Interesting list of the three that never raced in NY and never will.

That's because of the BC. Championships had to be earned through NY in the past.

They also had to be earned on the racetrack.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Not on synth, maybe, but Riboletta was faster on dirt.....by a city block.

looked that way at Churchill

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

looked that way at Churchill

It's very easy to tell partial truths if you don't really want to have a discussion that involves getting to the truth. This is what gets to the heart of your side of the debate ( even though you pretend you aren't involved ).

[Kasept]

You know who is frequently absent from these discussions.. and I don't know why.. is LATE BLOOMER.

She may not have had the sustained dominance of some of those above, but at her best, (her 4yo championship season), she was was about as good on BOTH turf and dirt as any filly over the period in question.

[rgustafson]

I think Paseana provides a decent comparison to Zenyatta so far with respect to races run in(obviously disregarding the surface). She raced 28 times in North America finishing first or second in 24 of those races, virtually all Grade I or Grade II. She finished third once and out of the money three times. The third place and one of the out of the money finishes both came in 1995 when she was 8 yrs. old and at the end of her career. Through her career at six, she had raced 19 times and raced outside of California 6 times. Two of those races were wins in the Apple Blossom at Oaklawn(sound familiar?),two of the races were in the Spinster at Keeneland(probably the biggest difference in their schedules) and one of those races outside of California was at Gulfstream where she won the Breeders Cup Distaff in 1992. We still have a couple of races unaccounted for, they were her other two out of the momey finishes. The first was in the second running of the Pacific Classic against males where she finished 5th. The other race was easily the worst race of her career and her only race in New York. It was the Grade I Ruffian at Belmont where she was last in a five horse field beaten some 20 lengths. Couldn't beat top male horses on dirt and couldn't win in New York. Obviously not one of the all time greats.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

She raced twice outside of NY.

Regardless, why didn't you bring up Lady's Secret, as she should be the horse that Zenyatta is linked to being that she usurped Lady's Secret's legacy at Oak Tree?

I don't recall.....what was her geographic distribution?

I think you would agree that Personal Ensign has been linked more to Zenyatta than Lady's Secret from what I have heard on the internet and read on forums, so my smile shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Really? You didn't realize this? Because it was discussed ad nauseum in various spots on DT.com where you were posting thoughout last week.

Maybe it was a ploy to draw you into a discussion, you know how many times Personal Ensign shipped across the coast. Apparently 1 less time than Zenyatta will when she ships to CD later this fall.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by CSC

Maybe it was a ploy to draw you into a discussion, you know how many times Personal Ensign shipped across the coast. Apparently 1 less time than Zenyatta will when she ships to CD later this fall.

This is already a fact? I did not know that in the sport of horse racing, once you say you are going to be in a race 4 months from now, you can count that as a start.

I'll believe she goes in the BC this year once she is saddled up in the paddock.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ARyan

This is already a fact? I did not know that in the sport of horse racing, once you say you are going to be in a race 4 months from now, you can count that as a start.

I'll believe she goes in the BC this year once she is saddled up in the paddock.

I think this is obvious, if any horse that has plans being there is healthy and in good form, barring a season ending after the Woodward for some.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by CSC

Maybe it was a ploy to draw you into a discussion, you know how many times Personal Ensign shipped across the coast. Apparently 1 less time than Zenyatta will when she ships to CD later this fall.

Personal Ensign was a Grade 1 winner in just her second career start as a 2yo. She then suffered a major fracture preparing for the BC Juvenile Fillies (at Santa Anita) in a hind ankle that required several screws to stabilize.

Off for nearly a year, she returned at 3, and with just 3 starts under her belt and never having run further than a mile, she won the Grade 1 Beldame versus her elders at a mile and a quarter.

Her perfect 4yo season was highlighted by a start against males in the Whitney and the BC Distaff. Both of those races were on off-tracks. Both resulted in victories, not scratches.

While the 13 for 13 may not stand up to Zenyatta's 17 for 17, there is a big difference IMO between running at 2 and 3 and not starting until nearly 4 years of age. You'll say that the competition at 2 and 3 is easier, but I would say that it's much more difficult for a top class horse to maintain superiority (whether or unbeaten or not) in its division as it and its peers are developing (some improving, some regressing) over time.

Though in basic terms, there race records are similar, here's the essential difference between the two:

Personal Ensign's race record is one of progression, essentially each successive start tougher than the last. Considering the injury, an element of heroism prevails.

Zenyatta's race record is one of ennui, same old song and dance. A cloud of evasion hangs over it.