More Poly Banter

[pmayjr]

Based on the other threads about the positives and negatives of polytrack, I decided to ask a girl I know from mysapce about it. She's currently an excerise rider/asst cronie/pt employee for Keeneland. She's trying to cactch on with Amoss or Dallas Stewart for the winter season. But she's in tune with the every day nitty gritty of horse racing... Especially since she works in KY.

I aksed her her thoughts on Poly Track, and how certain top-end dirt horses are adjusting to it. Here was my exact message to her. Her answer is consistent with a lot of opinions on here.

Sup? I post messages over at derbytrail.com. It's where a bunch of us horse racing fans talk about about racing in general. A lot really aren't liking the Poly-Track too much. They're beginning to claim from watching Turfway, that some horses that are $$$ on the dirt, hate the PolyTrack. Almost like it's a dirt horse switching to turf. Have you noticed or heard from anyone else that some horses don't seem to be taking to the stuff as much? Good luck with Dallas Stewart BTW. Will he be running at Fairgrounds or Oaklawn this winter or both? Maybe you can follow him all the way to Lone Star? No luck with Amoss?

And her answer-
Oh yeah - very much so, actually. There are a good number of horses that won't run for **** on the poly. It's mainly good dirt runners that are having trouble with it, from what I've seen... turf horses seem to do stellar on the stuff. Wonderful for them, but a real pain in the ass for those people with dirt horses. That said, some dirt ponies do just fine on the stuff. Some develop over it, "learn to like it"...

It's kind of an interesting situation. It'd be nice if some tracks had the means to maintain a third dirt track in addition to poly and turf... but I don't see that happening. It'll certainly be interesting to see how it affects sires here in the states... some dirt sires are probably going to have some trouble in the next few years - turf boys will probably have a bit of an ups... being that so many turf-loving horses can easily switch onto the poly... hmmmmmmmm...

Thanks for the luck. I don't know where Stewart is sending his string(s) this winter... I'd love to hook with the stable though and head on south a bit. LOL. Nice weather! WOO! It'd rock to go with him to Fairgrounds... a friend of mine is taking a string down there too! lol

As of the last morning I was at keeneland... Amoss hadn't moved his string on in yet. So I haven't bothered him yet. I'll see how things go with Stewart tomorrow... frankly I'd be a lot happier getting in with his group than McPeek (who was another I'd been wrangling towards)... he's got much better horses. So we'll see what works itself out.Anyway gotta' head off to sleep... gotta' be up at like four to get out to the track. LOL. Talk to ya latah!!

♥ Emily

So yeah... just a lil FYI from someone really plugged into the daily activities at the track... not that you guys aren't "plugged in". Just a lil insight from someone who deals with this stuff everyday. It seems to be poretty consistent with what some of ya'll think. Just a lil FYI (Side-note to Steve Byk: Eventhough her real name isn't revealed, I did ask her first before posting her answer to my message on here).

[Pointg5]

If the dirt horses don't like it and that's what they pay the big bucks for, this stuff won't be around very long...Thanks for the info...

[todko]

pmayjr.,

Thanks for posting that. It was very interesting. Living slightly north of TP I've followed the poly saga closely. I even stopped by while they were installing the poly at TP -- and I predicted the kickback issues before horses even ran on the stuff.

There have been a number of changes to the TP surface -- some of which haven't been discussed much in the press. TP has always insisted that it's the greatest surface in the world. If it was so great at the beginning, then why did TP feel the need to change it so often? Obviously, TP wasn't truthful about it from the start.

A "insider" told me on about March 15th that TP scraped the top 3 inches off the poly in efforts to make it quicker and to reduce the horrible kickback we saw in the spring meet. TP never spoke about scraping in the press. My "insider" helped me immensely as I adjusted my handicapping after March 15th and ended up profitable while a lot of people didn't. It was another example of how little tracks care about their patrons. Plus, TP was involved in selling poly to other tracks so Heaven forbid that they ever tell the truth about it.

The latest poly at TP is much better. Much less kickback, better times, more like dirt in color, now they need to add some artificial scent to get rid of the tire dump aroma.

I think Keeneland will have record handle for the meet. The college type crowd will bet as always and some horseplayers who stayed away will join in because the old speed bias should be gone. Plus there is not a lot happening now until Breeders Cup. Some players will stay away, but that will be offset by others increasing play.

14 horse fields on a brand new poly surface. It will be a crapshoot. Mega payouts, but still a crapshoot.

Originally Posted by todko

pmayjr.,

Thanks for posting that. It was very interesting. Living slightly north of TP I've followed the poly saga closely. I even stopped by while they were installing the poly at TP -- and I predicted the kickback issues before horses even ran on the stuff.

There have been a number of changes to the TP surface -- some of which haven't been discussed much in the press. TP has always insisted that it's the greatest surface in the world. If it was so great at the beginning, then why did TP feel the need to change it so often? Obviously, TP wasn't truthful about it from the start.

A "insider" told me on about March 15th that TP scraped the top 3 inches off the poly in efforts to make it quicker and to reduce the horrible kickback we saw in the spring meet. TP never spoke about scraping in the press. My "insider" helped me immensely as I adjusted my handicapping after March 15th and ended up profitable while a lot of people didn't. It was another example of how little tracks care about their patrons. Plus, TP was involved in selling poly to other tracks so Heaven forbid that they ever tell the truth about it.

The latest poly at TP is much better. Much less kickback, better times, more like dirt in color, now they need to add some artificial scent to get rid of the tire dump aroma.

I think Keeneland will have record handle for the meet. The college type crowd will bet as always and some horseplayers who stayed away will join in because the old speed bias should be gone. Plus there is not a lot happening now until Breeders Cup. Some players will stay away, but that will be offset by others increasing play.

14 horse fields on a brand new poly surface. It will be a crapshoot. Mega payouts, but still a crapshoot.

I doubt that college kids will boost the handle enough to offset the whales who won't be playing due to polycrap. Good luck getting a KU student to put 100 grand worth of wagers in on one afternoon.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I doubt that college kids will boost the handle enough to offset the whales who won't be playing due to polycrap. Good luck getting a KU student to put 100 grand worth of wagers in on one afternoon.

All that those College Kids care about is getting drunk and wondering where the party is going to be that night, and staring at the scenery...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

All that those College Kids care about is getting drunk and wondering where the party is going to be that night, and staring at the scenery...

Which is why I dislike Keeneland, get out of my way if you don't care about the racing!! Seriously, it's just a place to be seen and I guess as there is more to do in NY & CA you don't get that as much.

In regard to the sires... most of the top (and expensive) US-based stallions dont have much problem getting decent to good turf runners. Storm Cat for example is a very good turf stallion and most his sons can get them as well. If you include Gone West and his sons, Pulpit, El Prado, etc. then the bases are covered pretty well. Again though, this is based on the assumption and early indications that polytrack is handled better by more turf oriented runners.

It should be interesting to see some Indy's and Distorted Humors on the polytrack. Indy gets a few grass runners, usually out of european mares, but hasnt had a real good one yet, and Distorted Humor is a top stallion but has he had a grass runner? I cant remember any of note.

If anything, I think the polytrack will even out the playing field some in the stallion ranks... but remember... none of this will really be overly evident in stud fees, etc. for 10 years.

[pmayjr]

Yeah it'll definately be interesting to see how things pan out in the next few years. I wonder if the same issues might take place at Hollywood now too since they've installed it. I guess only time will tell.