8/1 (MTH): Haskell (G1), Oceanport & Matchmaker (G3's) - Page 8

westcoastinvader · #**141** 08-02-2010, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I'm not saying that Garcia will necessarily be riding #1 for Baffert forever. But if he continues to ride well for him, I would expect him to at least be riding a lot for him for the next few years. If Garcia starts giving him a lot of bad rides, he will be done in 6 months.

Garcia is still learning but I think he's geting better all the time. I think he's stepped up to another level this year. When you ride for a guy as sharp as Baffert, you're going to learn a lot because these top trainers actually teach these guys things.

I've been following Martin Garcia since I first realized he was the guy who once made a sandwich for me at the deli up the street, and then was on a horse I was looking at in the form.

I've been following thoroughbreds for 51 years. Started when my parents took me to the track at the age of 3. First thing I ever read aloud was the DRF, and THAT's a true story.

Martin Garcia has only been on thoroughbreds for about 60 months.

I've met him, and know as a fact he is a smart and intuitive guy. I do speak a good bit of albeit midwestern US learned Spanish.

I made pretty good money handicapping and wagering on Martin Garcia mounts when I realized he was a firestorm happening in the year he won a riding title over Russell Baze out here.

Martin Garcia is of course still on a learning curve at the top levels.

My only suggestion is to never get off betting a horse just because you doubt Martin Garcia.

If it's the horse's day to compete, Martin will find a way.

Antitrust32 · #**142** 08-02-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Pretty sure Phil was being sarcastic. It's 28%, which is about average for a jockey riding for a powerhouse barn like Baffert's.

what I gathered was it would have been 42% of his total wins on the year, which seems to be correct. 44/105

CSC · #**143** 08-02-2010, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I completely agree with you that having first dibs for any of the top barns is huge. But practically all of these top trainers have great eyes and they won't use jocks that are making mistakes. The only reason Baffert starting givng Garcia first dibs was because Garcia was riding great for him.

Even if a jock is lucky enough to get in with a big barn, they will be out very quick if they are giving bad rides. Baffert won't hesitate to give a guy the boot if the guy isn't riding well. We will see if Garcia lasts with Baffert. If you are right and Garcia is not a particularly good jock, he probably won't last long. If I am right and Garcia truly has become a top jock, he will probably be riding for Baffert for a long time.

By the way, the number for the Garcia/Baffert combo in 2009-2010 is 30% wins and an ROI of $2.12. That is from 194 mounts.

Rupert,

Agree about Baffert not hesitating giving a jockey the boot, throughout his training career he has had a love hate relationship with his riders, he's one of the most outspoken trainer's in the game that will not hesitate switching things up at a drop of a hat. He has used Expinoza on and off, Flores, Smith, Solis, Gomez, he even replaced HOF jock Mccarron once, used Antley for a short time so it is inevitable that Martin Garcia's time will come; however as long as they have success together and Garcia continues to develop as a rider, and more importantly do the things that Baffert likes on the track he will continue to get the choice mounts from his stable. I liken it to what happened to Alan Garcia when he broke through when he became Kieran Mclaughlin's go to rider, he got his break with him, his profile grew and he has parlayed that into better mounts with other stables. Regardless here is what Baffert said of Garcia's ride yesterday and in particular losing ground.

"He broke fine and Martin eased him to the outside," Baffert said of the winner. "I knew we’d lose a little bit of ground, but that was the winning move.

“At the three-eighths pole, that’s when you know you’ve got a good horse because they’ll be pulling you. Martin was still sitting, but when he pushed the button, the horse really took off. You can’t make that move on synthetic, but on dirt it was the winning move. That’s really what I like to see -- running fast horses on fast tracks.

The Indomitable DrugS · #**144** 08-02-2010, 10:07 AM

Fernando Jara could have been on been LAL yesterday and nothing would change.

CSC · #**145** 08-02-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Fernando Jara could have been on been LAL yesterday and nothing would change.

That might be a stretch, remember his ride in the Donn when he was stopped cold but Invasor bailed him out BIG TIME.

The Indomitable DrugS · #**146** 08-02-2010, 10:17 AM

Jara was a glorified sack of oats .. and not a very good judge of a lot of things - and yeah, Garcia is a little better than him I will admit ... but it doesn't take much to win on Caddy's.

10 pnt move up · #**147** 08-02-2010, 11:14 AM

If your hay is built on being the main rider in Baffert barn my advice would be not to get too comfortable and be very careful about flipping other trainers, what goes around comes around.

cakes44 · #**148** 08-02-2010, 11:33 AM

Javier Santiago was running #1 call for Baffert a few years back. How's he doing now?

MaTH716 · #**149** 08-02-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44

Javier Santiago was running #1 call for Baffert a few years back. How's he doing now?

Was he really first call? I thought the story was that he was a tall kid that Baffert stumbled upon/discovered in Puerto Rico and gave him a few mounts. I remember Santiago riding and winning a few races for him, but I think those were the days that Victor was his go to guy.

10 pnt move up · #**150** 08-02-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Was he really first call? I thought the story was that he was a tall kid that Baffert stumbled upon/discovered in Puerto Rico and gave him a few mounts. I remember Santiago riding and winning a few races for him, but I think those were the days that Victor was his go to guy.

yes for about 8 weeks or so he was.

westcoastinvader · #**151** 08-03-2010, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Was he really first call? I thought the story was that he was a tall kid that Baffert stumbled upon/discovered in Puerto Rico and gave him a few mounts. I remember Santiago riding and winning a few races for him, but I think those were the days that Victor was his go to guy.

One difference though is that Martin Garcia has a meet riding title notch in his belt.

Albeit NorCal circuit.

But facts are facts, he bested the all time winning jockey in the world in that meet. Something rarely done in NorCal.

Take your Baze and NorCal shots all you want, and I'll agree on some.

But Martin Garcia is very solid jockey that I would put on any horse I ever own any day of the week.

If it's the horse's day, Martin will be in the thick of the finish line action.

westcoastinvader · #**152** 08-03-2010, 01:45 AM

For those who are saying Lookin at Lucky is just the best of a weak 3 year old crop, I'll offer THAT is EXACTLY what was said of Seattle Slew real time in 1977.

I'll wonder how things might have been if Martin Garcia was aboard Lookin at Lucky in the Santa Anita Derby and Kentucky Derby....

Martin has certainly gotten him nice routes in his Preakness and Haskell.

ateamstupid · #**153** 08-03-2010, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcoastinvader

For those who are saying Lookin at Lucky is just the best of a weak 3 year old crop, I'll offer THAT is EXACTLY what was said of Seattle Slew real time in 1977.

Come on.

slotdirt · #**154** 08-03-2010, 07:28 AM

Ridiculous.

Indian Charlie · #**155** 08-03-2010, 07:40 AM

I think the Giacamo crop was comparable to the 73 (3yo) crop, with Giacamo being the equal to the to the top one from that year.

LARHAGE · #**156** 08-03-2010, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcoastinvader

For those who are saying Lookin at Lucky is just the best of a weak 3 year old crop, I'll offer THAT is EXACTLY what was said of Seattle Slew real time in 1977.

I'll wonder how things might have been if Martin Garcia was aboard Lookin at Lucky in the Santa Anita Derby and Kentucky Derby....

Martin has certainly gotten him nice routes in his Preakness and Haskell.

Come on, you honestly think a mediocre Garcia would have won the Derby from the #1 hole? His Preakness and Haskell rides could have been duplicated by Barrington Harvey and been the same result, wide, premature moves against complete filth, that ride wouldn't have gotten close to Sidneys Candy. If anyone thinks Garcia is the reason Lucky has won his last two, than I have a bridge to sell, take away Baffert and Garca's numbers speak for themself. This whole thing is ridiculous, he's an average jock at best. Gomez has gotten a completely ridiculous rap here, I'd rather have him in a coma on my horse over Garcia, anyday of the week.

3kings · #**157** 08-03-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Come on, you honestly think a mediocre Garcia would have won the Derby from the #1 hole? His Preakness and Haskell rides could have been duplicated by Barrington Harvey and been the same result, wide, premature moves against complete filth, that ride wouldn't have gotten close to Sidneys Candy. If anyone thinks Garcia is the reason Lucky has won his last two, than I have a bridge to sell, take away Baffert and Garca's numbers speak for themself. This whole thing is ridiculous, he's an average jock at best. Gomez has gotten a completely ridiculous rap here, I'd rather have him in a coma on my horse over Garcia, anyday of the week.

You are in luck then, because G. Gomez has been riding like he is in a coma the last few months.

LARHAGE · #**158** 08-03-2010, 11:08 AM

And despite that he still outrides Garcia. Gomez is riding a lot of longshots at the elite meet in the world, Garcia is competing in short fields on Baffert caddies, take away Baffert and Garcia
would be spreading mayo on wheat.

CSC · #**159** 08-03-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

And despite that he still outrides Garcia. Gomez is riding a lot of longshots at the elite meet in the world, Garcia is competing in short fields on Baffert caddies, take away Baffert and Garcia
would be spreading mayo on wheat.

Gomez may be a better rider at this stage of their careers, I will not argue that point. But in terms of the only thing that matters, results. Garcia has better results on Lookin at Lucky and has ridden him better than Gomez has, I think you would agree with this. If being a caddie was a forgone conclusion, Gomez would be riding Lookin At Lucky and for Baffert right now.

cakes44 · #**160** 08-03-2010, 11:55 AM

Garcia has yet to ride him on synthetic. Those trips he gave him would be 0 for 2 on the stuff Gomez had to ride him on. And I don't care about the KD because Jesus would have lost from the 1-hole there, assuming he could ride horses like he rationed bread.