farve please..

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

going to bring down minn again..lol

[The Indomitable DrugS]

What's so great about Brett Favre? He played like a million years - and only has a single ring to show for it ... and that one ring came thanks in part to the 1996 Packers #1 rated defense in the entire NFL.

Without Sterling Sharp to throw to - and without that Reggie White led #1 defense in the entire NFL - where are his rings?

I'll tell you who was a real loser though - that Barry Sanders guy.

Nevermind that Sanders went to 10 Pro Bowls - I don't think the Lions ever won a single playoff game the entire time he was in Detroit.

A running back that was actually a winner - like the great Reggie Bush for instance - would have surely won a Super Bowl in Detroit.

I remember when Sanders somehow took the Lions to the playoffs in '95 - they give up 58 points to the Rodney Peete led Eagles in the wild card game. Scott Mitchell threw 4 INT's in the first half - and they pulled him and his backup came in and threw 2 more.

Once that loser finally retired and left Detroit - the Lions have been a near dynasty ever since.

[slotdirt]

Barry Sanders won a playoff game in 1991. Count it.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Barry Sanders won a playoff game in 1991. Count it.

Wow. Didn't remember that. So, in his entire career - he won only a single playoff game.

He played on some truly miserable teams after that. There were years when he was probably the single best player in the entire league - and his team was 5-11 or 6-10.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsFhZ...eature=related

[slotdirt]

The Lions made the playoffs something like five times in the 90's. Those were legitimately the glory years of the franchise in the post-merger era. Nothing even close to a winning record since 2001 when Paul Edinger hit a 55-ish yard field goal to beat the Lions - and knock them out of the playoffs - with like 20 seconds left in the last week of the season. BIll Ford Sr. hired Matt Millen like a week later and the rest, as they say, is history.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Imagine if he played on those Cowboys teams that Emmit Smith played on.

They had an absolutely devastating offensive line. Probably the best offensive line I've ever seen. Yet Troy Aikman, Emmit Smith, Micheal Irvin, and Alvin Harper got all the credit for their offensive success ... those four were all overrated as hell .. but obviously very solid players.

They also had a pretty damn good defense in Dallas.

The fact that Troy Aikman only managed to win 3 Super Bowls with what he had around them there shows either A.) how hard it is to win a Super Bowl or B.) how much of a loser Aikman is.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Imagine if he played on those Cowboys teams that Emmit Smith played on.

They had an absolutely devastating offensive line. Probably the best offensive line I've ever seen. Yet Troy Aikman, Emmit Smith, Micheal Irvin, and Alvin Harper got all the credit for their offensive success ... those four were all overrated as hell .. but obviously very solid players.

They also had a pretty damn good defense in Dallas.

The fact that Troy Aikman only managed to win 3 Super Bowls with what he had around them there shows either A.) how hard it is to win a Super Bowl or B.) how much of a loser Aikman is.

You are right on the Cowboys skill guys getting overrated by the lineman but the 91-92 Redskins is the best line I have ever seen.

Barry was a defensive killer, his own defense that is. His style of running meant it was 3 and out or a quick drive with a long run. Either way the defense was back out there quickly. That isn't the formula for winning football games, 4 yards in a cloud of dust is. I'd like to see how many teams have made it far in the playoffs with as many runs for zero or negative yards as Sanders routinely had. I bet the list is short cause that isn't the way to win football games. Also, Barry's line was not bad like people make it out to be, he had 1-2 Pro Bowlers on his line virtually every year he was there. It was his own style of always looking for the big play that caused so many runs for negative yards.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I don't think it puts that much pressure on the defense. The Bills kept winning the AFC Championship game every year and they'd lose the time of possession battle huge every game.

Here's Sanders final year in college - it's widely regarded as the single greatest year ever by a college football player. I think pretty much everyone but me considers it that anyway....

1. Barry Sanders, Oklahoma State (1988)

The only serious question when composing this list was "Who's No. 2?" Sanders season was the only college football player's campaign to rank in ESPN.com's "End of the Century" list covering all sports. Rattle this off next time your bar buddies say someone's having a great season:

# Sanders rushed for 2,628 yards, an NCAA record.

# He had 3,249 total yards, an NCAA record.

# Sanders scored 39 TDs (37 rushing, 1 kick return, 1 punt return), an NCAA record.

# He averaged 7.6 yards per carry.

# He rushed for 300+ yards in four games.

That was during the 11-game regular season. In the Holiday Bowl against Wyoming, he ran for 222 yards and 5 TDs. In three quarters. He sat out the fourth, as OSU won 62-14.

Oklahoma State finished the year ranked #11 in the country. They lost to only Nebraska and Oklahoma.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I don't think it puts that much pressure on the defense. The Bills kept winning the AFC Championship game every year and they'd lose the time of possession battle huge every game.

Here's Sanders final year in college - it's widely regarded as the single greatest year ever by a college football player. I think pretty much everyone but me considers it that anyway....

A large part of the reason the Bills were able to do that was with the K-Gun offense they kept the opposing defense just as tired as their defense was by never giving them a chance to recuperate between plays. While the Bills were on defense the other teams were often trying to slow the game down to give their defense a chance to catch their breath. When you are going 3 and out or scoring a quick TD every time as Detroit did then when the other team gets on offense they are picking up the pace and trying to wear out your defense cause their own defense stays well rested.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Imagine if he played on those Cowboys teams that Emmit Smith played on.

They had an absolutely devastating offensive line. Probably the best offensive line I've ever seen. Yet Troy Aikman, Emmit Smith, Micheal Irvin, and Alvin Harper got all the credit for their offensive success ... those four were all overrated as hell .. but obviously very solid players.

They also had a pretty damn good defense in Dallas.

The fact that Troy Aikman only managed to win 3 Super Bowls with what he had around them there shows either A.) how hard it is to win a Super Bowl or B.) how much of a loser Aikman is.

as much as it pains me to say it... Troy Aikman was a terrific QB.

I went to a lot of Eagles / Cowboys game in the 90's and the Cowgirls O-line was superb. You could literally drive a truck through the holes they would create. Not to say Emmit wasnt a great running back, but any running back with the skill level to play in the NFL would have THRIVED with that line.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I went to a lot of Eagles / Cowboys game in the 90's and the Cowgirls O-line was superb. You could literally drive a truck through the holes they would create. Not to say Emmit wasnt a great running back, but any running back with the skill level to play in the NFL would have THRIVED with that line.

Yes, his career QB rating of 81.6 behind one of the greatest lines ever assembled with tons of weapons at his disposal sure is terrific. Kevin Kolb is terrible but he might beat 81.6 this year.

[slotdirt]

People who say Barry Sanders was terrible for his own defense never actually watched any Lions games. Quick: name the running backs in NFL history to retire with YPC averages of more than 5.0. Name the running backs in NFL history to have a higher per game rushing average than Barry Sanders.

Also, aside from Lomas Brown, who were the great Lions offensive lineman in the 90's? Erik Andolsek? Mike Utley? Really? The Lions had good offensive lines during the Sanders years? Care to rephrase?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

People who say Barry Sanders was terrible for his own defense never actually watched any Lions games. Quick: name the running backs in NFL history to retire with YPC averages of more than 5.0. Name the running backs in NFL history to have a higher per game rushing average than Barry Sanders.

Also, aside from Lomas Brown, who were the great Lions offensive lineman in the 90's? Erik Andolsek? Mike Utley? Really? The Lions had good offensive lines during the Sanders years? Care to rephrase?

Kevin Glover was 4 times first team all conference during the Sanders years, he was a heck of a center. If you have two All Pro lineman that is not a bad line.

[slotdirt]

Kevin Glover was never All-Pro. Pro Bowl yes, All-Pro no. In any event, you're the first person I've ever seen say the Lions had a good offensive line in the Barry Sanders era. Congratulations on being very, very wrong. Don't you think the Lions having a couple offensive linemen going to the Pro Bowl might have had a little more to do with Sanders than it did the actual offensive line?

Barry Sanders would have put that rushing record so far out in the stratosphere that Emmitt Smith could have retired with a little dignity. Unfortunately, the Lions stink.

[slotdirt]

BTW, if the Lions had such a great offensive line, why was it that aside from perhaps one or two seasons when Barry Sanders was in the backfield, the passing game was so average? If that offensive line was that good, one would think Rodney Peete or Erik Kramer or Andre Ware or Charlie Batch or Frank Reich or Don Majkowski or Dave Krieg or Bob Gagliano (read: anybody except Scott Mitchell who lucked into a trio of great WR's, the best RB ever, and a coach who didn't give a crap) might have had more productive careers as Detroit Lions, no?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Yes, his career QB rating of 81.6 behind one of the greatest lines ever assembled with tons of weapons at his disposal sure is terrific. Kevin Kolb is terrible but he might beat 81.6 this year.

do you forget that the Cowboys were absolutely terrible for his first few years?

here are some highlights (though stats are from 2000):

#1 all time for career completion percentages in superbowls

#3 all time for career completion percentages in playoffs

He showed up when it counted most, and was a very accurate QB.

I'm done with this topic though. The last thing I want to do is talk good about a Cowgirls member.


PS. you know absolutely nothing about Kevin Kolb.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

People who say Barry Sanders was terrible for his own defense never actually watched any Lions games. Quick: name the running backs in NFL history to retire with YPC averages of more than 5.0. Name the running backs in NFL history to have a higher per game rushing average than Barry Sanders.

Also, aside from Lomas Brown, who were the great Lions offensive lineman in the 90's? Erik Andolsek? Mike Utley? Really? The Lions had good offensive lines during the Sanders years? Care to rephrase?

(Sniper is not known to have the greatest NFL opinions)

kiss kiss Scott

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Kevin Glover was 4 times first team all conference during the Sanders years, he was a heck of a center. If you have two All Pro lineman that is not a bad line.

not true. I'm not gonna comment on the Lions line, but if you have 2 all pro's and the other 3 are bad, the line is going to be terrible.

2 guys are just a small part of the line.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Kevin Glover was never All-Pro. Pro Bowl yes, All-Pro no. In any event, you're the first person I've ever seen say the Lions had a good offensive line in the Barry Sanders era. Congratulations on being very, very wrong. Don't you think the Lions having a couple offensive linemen going to the Pro Bowl might have had a little more to do with Sanders than it did the actual offensive line?

Barry Sanders would have put that rushing record so far out in the stratosphere that Emmitt Smith could have retired with a little dignity. Unfortunately, the Lions stink.

Pro Football Weekly named Glover first team all conference 4 times, I'll take their opinion over that of the Pro Bowl which is just a popularity contest for offensive lineman.

And the reason those QBs you mentioned didn't do better is because they suck. The Jets had a better offensive line last year than the Lions ever did but it didn't stop Sanchez from sucking.