Brother Derek - Page 4

SniperSB23 · #61 10-11-2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

So wait until the Hollywood meet or Santa Anita meet. Besides, I wouldn't run a dog on that Del Mar track......

I just have a tough time fathoming how there can be so many easy races for 3yos with huge purses at all these tracks throughout the midwest and east coast and more decent horses aren't shipping in for them.

#62 10-11-2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The Swaps is the only big race in California for 3yo's on the dirt after the TC. The purse there is $250k, $350k if u are a BC eligible horse. The purse for the WV Derby is $750k. For the Indiana Derby it's $500k. The Super Derby was run for $500k. Do u still have to ask why bother?

Yes, why bother shipping a horse outside of California that won't/can't win outside of California? Now do you understand what I am saying about the horse? I was trying to be nice to his fans.

#63 10-11-2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I just have a tough time fathoming how there can be so many easy races for 3yos with huge purses at all these tracks throughout the midwest and east coast and more decent horses aren't shipping in for them.

I have had the same question myself. I guess alot of it has to do the the grade of the race. Anymore, owners seem to be more concerned with graded stakes (gr. 1s) than the purses, because it's the grade of the race that makes the difference in the breeding shed rather than amount of money won, it seems.

King Glorious · #64 10-11-2006, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

Yes, why bother shipping a horse outside of California that won't/can't win outside of California? Now do you understand what I am saying about the horse? I was trying to be nice to his fans.

That's silly. Are u saying that if the Derby was in Cali, he would have beaten Barbaro? If the Preakness was in Cali, he would have beaten Bernardini? If that's your belief, this is useless. The fact is that he wasn't going to win those races no matter where they were held. But if he had shipped to the Indiana Derby or the WV Derby, he wouldn't have been facing Barbaro and Bernardini. It wasn't where the races were being held that was getting him beat. He can ship to Japan and beat horses like Cielo Gold and Star Dabbler. Come on now.

#65 10-11-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That's silly. Are u saying that if the Derby was in Cali, he would have beaten Barbaro? If the Preakness was in Cali, he would have beaten Bernardini? If that's your belief, this is useless. The fact is that he wasn't going to win those races no matter where they were held. But if he had shipped to the Indiana Derby or the WV Derby, he wouldn't have been facing Barbaro and Bernardini. It wasn't where the races were being held that was getting him beat. He can ship to Japan and beat horses like Cielo Gold and Star Dabbler. Come on now.

Did I say anything about him beating Barbaro or Bernardini???? What I am saying is the horses' style of running is more suited to Cal. He's a Cal-bred, and he needs to stay in Cal. He needs to run with his caliber of horses, and hope no big dawgs ship in for the big races next year. He was the best 3yr. old in Cal this year. Can he be the best 4 yr. old in Cal next year? I don't see it.
Kentucky Derby, Preakness in Cal??? Ha. And no, Bro D. still wouldn't have beaten any of the TC winners this year had they ran the races in Cal.

King Glorious · #66 10-11-2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

Did I say anything about him beating Barbaro or Bernardini???? What I am saying is the horses' style of running is more suited to Cal. He's a Cal-bred, and he needs to stay in Cal. He needs to run with his caliber of horses, and hope no big dawgs ship in for the big races next year. He was the best 3yr. old in Cal this year. Can he be the best 4 yr. old in Cal next year? I don't see it.
Kentucky Derby, Preakness in Cal??? Ha. And no, Bro D. still wouldn't have beaten any of the TC winners this year had they ran the races in Cal.

So u say he needs to run with his caliber of horses. In other words, u are saying that he couldn't run with Star Dabbler or Cielo Gold or Bright One? Are u seriously suggesting that those horses outclass him? If not, then why couldn't he ship to Indiana and run with them? If u are saying there is no need to ship to the Haskell, the Jim Dandy, or the Travers.....I'd go along with that. But to say he couldn't run with the horses that were in the Indiana Derby based simply on the fact that the race wasn't in California is a pretty silly opinion.

#67 10-11-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

So u say he needs to run with his caliber of horses. In other words, u are saying that he couldn't run with Star Dabbler or Cielo Gold or Bright One? Are u seriously suggesting that those horses outclass him? If not, then why couldn't he ship to Indiana and run with them? If u are saying there is no need to ship to the Haskell, the Jim Dandy, or the Travers.....I'd go along with that. But to say he couldn't run with the horses that were in the Indiana Derby based simply on the fact that the race wasn't in California is a pretty silly opinion.

OK, so why the hell didn't his trainer ship him for those races??? The horse has proven he's not a great shipper. Why ship him out of the state to lose???

disappearingdan_akaplaya · #68 10-12-2006, 12:13 AM

http://drf.com/news/article/79496.html

King Glorious · #69 10-12-2006, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

OK, so why the hell didn't his trainer ship him for those races??? The horse has proven he's not a great shipper. Why ship him out of the state to lose???

Think about what u are saying here for just a moment. U saying he's afraid to ship him out of state to face the vaunted Star Dabbler and Cielo Gold in the Indiana Derby......but willing to ship him out of state to face Bernardini and Invasor as well as Lava Man? What kind of sense does this make? U say that horse has proven he's not a great shipper only because he lost races that he would have lost anywhere. If he was facing Bernardini and Barbaro in California, he still would have lost. Then would u say that he needs to ship to Mexico because he's proven that he's not able to win in the U.S.? He lost those races not due to shipping but due to facing better horses, something that he wouldn't have had to do in Indiana or West Virginia. If he was shipping and losing to the same horses that he had beaten in Cali, then u would have a point. But there is nothing to suggest shipping has been the problem. The competition has.

repent · #70 10-12-2006, 02:14 AM

BroDerek is not a bad shipper.
He is just a bad racehorse.

there are plenty of nice Cal Bred stakes for him to run in.
no sense in going back to the BC and getting his as* kicked for the 2nd straight year.

Repent

repent · #71 10-12-2006, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdrift1

hes coming back off a long layoff you gotta give him a chance

why?
b/c he looked so good getting his as* kicked by another Cal bred that is going to be in the same race?

this is a horse that lost the freaking El Cajon or something stakes.
horses like Bob and John and Da Stoops beat him that race.

there is some precedent for a late developing 3YO Cal bred to win the BCC.
but thats not what this is.
he is a front runner that is successful against bad 3Yo horses when there is no other pace in the race.

I completely hate ppl like Randy Moss who b*tched endlessly about the bad trips he got in the KY Derby and the Preakness.
at some point, you have to stop blaming the circumstances and look at the horse.
I thought horses with speed were supposed to be able to avoid bad trips?
I thought that was the big inherent advatage in American dirt racing that speed gave you?

yet this horse always has an excuse as to why he cant win outside of Santa Anita racecourse.

just like I have asked with the Tin Man.
Please bet him.
bet him with everything you have.
b/c his Breeders Cup experience will be the same as it was last year when he tried the big time at Belmont Park.
NO CHANCE.

Repent

Slewbopper · #72 10-12-2006, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah his trip was bad in the Derby, but not half as bad as Sweetnorthernsaint, or Point Determined. He's good, but I agree with joel, he is a bit overhyped as of right now. I agree he should sit out the Classic and point for the Cal Cup. He could also have a very productive winter at Santa Anita, a track he is obviously very fond of.

He seems to be a horse that can't win outside Los Angeles. The Cal Cup Classic will be in Florida next year. I wouldn't pencil in a win for him just yet. His record at SA/Hol is 7-6-1-0. At other tracks, including Delmar, it is
5-0-0-1 with 4 fourths.

boswd · #73 10-12-2006, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

OK, so why the hell didn't his trainer ship him for those races??? The horse has proven he's not a great shipper. Why ship him out of the state to lose???

Hendricks did say that he hated shipping Brother Derek and would prefered not too for the big summer races. He briefly considered the Haskell. This is a mindset I don't believe in. If you have a talented 3 yr old that can definiltly win some of those races, you have to ship him. Outside of the Swaps there are no major races for the 3 yr olds. If you want to prove his worth you have to ship to the East there is no way around it. You can get away with it if you have a talented older horse since Cali has alot of great races but for 3 yr olds there is no option besides some really weak San " something" stakes at Del Mar.
I think he did this horse wrong this year.

boswd · #74 10-12-2006, 11:02 AM

I honestly believe we don't know how good this horse really is either way. I will give him the bad trip excuse in the derby and he still finished a respectable 4th. Preakness, he just got his butt whipped no excused sorry. His Del Mar race was coming off a way tooo long of a layoff and is a toss even though he did face really bad competition. Bad move on Hendricks.
He has showed a lot of talent going into the Derby. And has been poorly managed since then. Until we see Brother Derek on a normal schedule we will have to wait to determine whether or not he just a good So Cal horse or a good national horse.

pdrift1 · #75 10-12-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by repent

why?
b/c he looked so good getting his as* kicked by another Cal bred that is going to be in the same race?

this is a horse that lost the freaking El Cajon or something stakes.
horses like Bob and John and Da Stoops beat him that race.

there is some precedent for a late developing 3YO Cal bred to win the BCC.
but thats not what this is.
he is a front runner that is successful against bad 3Yo horses when there is no other pace in the race.

I completely hate ppl like Randy Moss who b*tched endlessly about the bad trips he got in the KY Derby and the Preakness.
at some point, you have to stop blaming the circumstances and look at the horse.
I thought horses with speed were supposed to be able to avoid bad trips?
I thought that was the big inherent advatage in American dirt racing that speed gave you?

yet this horse always has an excuse as to why he cant win outside of Santa Anita racecourse.

just like I have asked with the Tin Man.
Please bet him.
bet him with everything you have.
b/c his Breeders Cup experience will be the same as it was last year when he tried the big time at Belmont Park.
NO CHANCE.

repent my statement was not alluding to him winning the classic ever, it was that this horse came out of the el cajun horrible and i knew he was better then that race and he proved it with a better run race in the goodwood, and feel he has stakes capabilities out west, thats all

Repent

repent my statement was not alluding to him winning the classic ever, it was that this horse came out of the el cajun horrible and i knew he was better then that race and he proved it with a better run race in the goodwood, and feel he has stakes capabilities out west, thats all. and yes speed should put you up front in most races but not absolute when you brake from the 19 hole for christs sakes along with all the bumping he endured

dr. fager · #76 10-12-2006, 11:20 AM

for what it's worth...he was nominated for the Ok. Derby on Oct. 20th....I'd much rather see him here. (off espn)

King Glorious · #77 10-12-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr. fager

for what it's worth...he was nominated for the Ok. Derby on Oct. 20th....I'd much rather see him here. (off espn)

I don't think that means anything. I think that was just a trainer doing what he's supposed to do and nominating for everything with a good purse that he's eligible for. I'd bet 1/9 against seeing him there.

#78 10-12-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by repent

BroDerek is not a bad shipper.
He is just a bad racehorse.

Repent

Remember this is coming from the guy who thought Smarty's TC run was complete luck. Strong opinions, sometimes bizarre. But we like him.

#79 10-12-2006, 05:37 PM

[quote=boswd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

OK, so why the hell didn't his trainer ship him for those races??? The horse has proven he's not a great shipper. Why ship him out of the state to lose???[/QUOT

Hendricks did say that he hated shipping Brother Derek and would prefered not too for the big summer races. He briefly considered the Haskell. This is a mindset I don't believe in. If you have a talented 3 yr old that can definiltly win some of those races, you have to ship him. Outside of the Swaps there are no major races for the 3 yr olds. If you want to prove his worth you have to ship to the East there is no way around it. You can get away with it if you have a talented older horse since Cali has alot of great races but for 3 yr olds there is no option besides some really weak San " something" stakes at Del Mar.
I think he did this horse wrong this year.

The man hates shipping this horse for a reason. Some horses don't handle it as well as others. Hendricks knows this horse better than anyone and obviously realizes shipping is not this horses' forte.

Slewbopper · #80 10-12-2006, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No you're thinking of the Sunshine Millions. I'm talking about the Cal Cup. Sunshine Millions is Fla and Cal breds competing in races against each other at Gulfstream and Santa Anita and its sometime in late January. The Cal Cup is a series of races for only Cal Breds, held at Santa Anita in late October I think.

I just reread what I wrote and thought "Duh". In that case, I wonder if Hendricks will ship to Gulfstream for the Sunshine Million.