Is it over for the unions?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Bad schools are the norm in this country, period. Money does not make a school any better, ask Newark, NJ, worst and most expensive. Good teachers are not common, great teachers are very rare. It must be nice to have gone to a school that promotes that type of thinking, I did not, I doubt most Americans had that opportunity. I know where I come from, this is not the case at all. My Kindergarten teacher was excellent, by the way.

most teachers come from the bottom third of the scholastic charts.....you could look it up! Good and great teachers are burned out and dried up by the silly b.s. and gamesmanship they face from year 1.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Riot

Because people have the right to collectively bargain. You know, that Constitution thingy ...

I can't let this slide. Where in the wild, wild, world of sports does the Constitution breathe one word about "collective bargaining"? Help me out here Riot.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

I can't let this slide. Where in the wild, wild, world of sports does the Constitution breathe one word about "collective bargaining"? Help me out here Riot.

I was wondering if anyone else would comment on this. I honestly have given up trying to reason with Riot especially when she makes comments like collective bargaining is a protected right in the constitution. Her statements mostly speak for themselves.

[SOREHOOF]

I don't think she's ever been in a Union. I have.
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am10.html

[Danzig]

riot may be referening the labor relations act regarding collective bargaining, which was upheld by a supreme court decision...so, just as abortion is considered a 'constitutional right', so is collective bargaining...it's not stated, it's implied i suppose.


however, state govts are exempt from said act, thus exempt from having to allow collective bargaining. an interesting turn of events there. it appears that altho people might not like the ledge and govs moves regarding collective bargaining, i don't know there's much that can be done now-until the next election of course.

i do find it interesting that a move that ostensibly takes one persons right away instead confers that right on the union. you see, when you unionize, you can no longer approach the higher ups on your own about something. the union does it for you-so didn't you just give away your right to free speech? the union votes, the majority decides. so, if you don't like something, but the majority disagrees, tough titties for you. the union doesn't take up your cause. the constitution protects even the most unpopular minority-westboro baptist church for instance. not the same for a union. they attempt to protect the group as a whole, but not so much an individual unless a grievance is filed. and i believe the grievance has to be deemed legit by the union.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

I can't let this slide. Where in the wild, wild, world of sports does the Constitution breathe one word about "collective bargaining"? Help me out here Riot.

Wow. I forgot you were so literal. Sorry.

I never said the right to form a union was contained in the Constitution. The Constitution lays out the basic tenets of the laws of our land. The Supreme Court interprets laws we make in light of the Constitution. The right to form unions, and to collectively bargain, has been deemed legal under our Constitutional rights for decades.

And yes, I recall that I was a member of a union for 4 years in my 20's. ASFCME

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

I was wondering if anyone else would comment on this. I honestly have given up trying to reason with Riot especially when she makes comments like collective bargaining is a protected right in the constitution. Her statements mostly speak for themselves.

Well, it would be so much easier for you, I'm sure, if you wouldn't misread or misstate what I've said, or say I've said things that I have not. Just a suggestion

[wiphan]

Here is what has been collectively bargained for

http://walker.wi.gov/journal_media_d...=177&prid=5675


What about the kids? Class size? Oh yeah it is about the $ really

[Riot]

I find Scott Walker to be a publicly proven liar.

Senate Leader Scott Fitzgerald-R goofed up, and admitted publicly on Fox this past weekend it was all about union busting to remove dues, to make it harder for Obama to get re-elected in 2012.

Budget cuts - an excuse and a lie. If the budget was in such a state, why give $140 million in tax cuts and incentives to business first thing after you are elected? Then immediately turn around and cry you need $130 million in concessions from unions for this budget year?

There are budget concerns. Walker doesn't seem to be addressing them in a realistic way. He is using them to achieve political goals.

More interested in what Walker took away, then what he says remains. Good luck with his continuing to try and demonize teachers. Even the police and fire unions he spared from his bill for political reasons are now against him.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

I find Scott Walker to be a publicly proven liar. More interested in what he took away, then what he says remains.

So are Reid,Pelosi, Biden and Obama

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

So are Reid,Pelosi, Biden and Obama

What about Chris Dodd?

The funny part is what I posted was what has been collectively bargained for in the past and just exposing the ridiculousness that has been going on in WI and why this needed to end. Riot take a look at it and tell me that any of those things are necessary to employee good teachers and provide our children with a great education

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

So are Reid,Pelosi, Biden and Obama

Walker is in a little niche all his own over this.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

What about Chris Dodd?

The funny part is what I posted was what has been collectively bargained for in the past and just exposing the ridiculousness that has been going on in WI and why this needed to end. Riot take a look at it and tell me that any of those things are necessary to employee good teachers and provide our children with a great education

What Walker this year lists is things he doesn't like that the unions get. That is what collective bargaining is about. If he thinks there should be changes, he needed to bargain for them. But he didn't.

In fact, Walker listed concessions he needed for the budget, as an excuse for busting unions, and the unions immediately gave those concessions to him.

That proved Walker is not about what teachers (and prison guards, librarians, and police and fire) get, it's not about the budget - it is about union-busting for political gain.

He's just trying to cover his ass now with the public.

Believe me: if 120,000 Tea Party members showed up anywhere - let alone 3 weekends in a row in the Wisconsin State Capital - it would be all over the news. The massive like demonstrations by thousands (10,000, 20,000) in Michigan and Indiana have not even getting news coverage. "Liberal bias" mainstream media? Huh?

Hey, you like Walker. Good luck with that.

I see the Republican party clearly now for the corporate whores they've become. They used to have a responsible social consciousness. That's long gone. Carl Rove killed the end of it. I'll not be voting GOP again anytime soon. I almost have more hope for the loons in the Tea Party turning that into a party that is viable and sustained, than the Republican party of today remaining a political force.

You vote, I'll vote, and the country will go where we steer it.

Oh, yeah: except the GOP, state by state, is desperately trying to take away the vote of college students before the 2012 elections. Because the young voted overwhelmingly for Obama, and tend to vote Democratic.

Yeah: the GOP is all about helping our country.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

What Walker this year lists is things he doesn't like that the unions get. That is what collective bargaining is about. If he thinks there should be changes, he needed to bargain for them. But he didn't.

In fact, Walker listed concessions he needed for the budget, as an excuse for busting unions, and the unions immediately gave those concessions to him.

That proved Walker is not about what teachers (and prison guards, librarians, and police and fire) get, it's not about the budget - it is about union-busting for political gain.

He's just trying to cover his ass now with the public.

Believe me: if 120,000 Tea Party members showed up anywhere - let alone 3 weekends in a row in the Wisconsin State Capital - it would be all over the news. The massive like demonstrations by thousands (10,000, 20,000) in Michigan and Indiana have not even getting news coverage. "Liberal bias" mainstream media? Huh?

Hey, you like Walker. Good luck with that.

I see the Republican party clearly now for the corporate whores they've become. They used to have a responsible social consciousness. That's long gone. Carl Rove killed the end of it. I'll not be voting GOP again anytime soon. I almost have more hope for the loons in the Tea Party turning that into a party that is viable and sustained, than the Republican party of today remaining a political force.

You vote, I'll vote, and the country will go where we steer it.

Oh, yeah: except the GOP, state by state, is desperately trying to take away the vote of college students before the 2012 elections. Because the young voted overwhelmingly for Obama, and tend to vote Democratic.

Yeah: the GOP is all about helping our country.

hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!!

What on earth does that have to do with her arguments? Sexism is not productive. Folks on the net just can't help personalizing every debate, and things quickly devolve into who can yell the loudest or insult the most. I frankly have little use for either political party, both are far to the right of my personal views but often it becomes taking the lesser of two evils.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

What on earth does that have to do with her arguments? Sexism is not productive. Folks on the net just can't help personalizing every debate, and things quickly devolve into who can yell the loudest or insult the most. I frankly have little use for either political party, both are far to the right of my personal views but often it becomes taking the lesser of two evils.

wasn't sexism at all....Riot thinks the Republicans did her wrong.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!!

No, not fury - sadly, more real fear and concern.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

wasn't sexism at all....Riot thinks the Republicans did her wrong.

No, I think the current Republicans are doing this country wrong, big time.