Question about first year sires

[my miss storm cat]

I'll preface this by saying I know nothing about this kind of thing...

The good people at Poonawalla Stud in India were kind enough to update me on (music, please ) Ace () .

He's doing well. Happy, healthy, adored.

Anyway he has 67 foals in his first crop and they're due to begin racing later this year.

So this number... is this good? Bad? Average?

Thanks in advance!

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I'll preface this by saying I know nothing about this kind of thing...

The good people at Poonawalla Stud in India were kind enough to update me on (music, please ) Ace () .

He's doing well. Happy, healthy, adored.

Anyway he has 67 foals in his first crop and they're due to begin racing later this year.

So this number... is this good? Bad? Average?

Thanks in advance!

I'm not sure how many mares he was bred to versus got in foal, or how the demand compares with other Indian sires, but that's a nice crop. It's the same number of mares bred to Aragorn over here, 2 less than Holy Bull, and 6 more than Quiet American or War Chant if that helps your perspective (see: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ing/mares-bred) I assume they don't bulk breed 150-200 foals per crop over there, but I can't be sure. Any other Danehill's over there with him?

[my miss storm cat]

Thanks for answering and for the comparisons. I appreciate it!

The only Danehill that I know of over there but I don't know all that much...

Can I ask one other thing?

Okay this doesn't relate to India or Aci-ie at all but like I said I'm a breeding moron, so...

Mick Channon now trains Winker Watson and he calls him his dual purpose horse.

WW has 25 foals on the ground and 27 mares scanned in foal BUT he's in training cause I guess the owners want him to do both. He's gonna race (pointed to the July Cup) and then go back to stud.

Why is this rare? I mean not to sound completely stupid here but why isn't this done too often?

Thanks.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Thanks for answering and for the comparisons. I appreciate it!

The only Danehill that I know of over there but I don't know all that much...

Can I ask one other thing?

Okay this doesn't relate to India or Aci-ie at all but like I said I'm a breeding moron, so...

Mick Channon now trains Winker Watson and he calls him his dual purpose horse.

WW has 25 foals on the ground and 27 mares scanned in foal BUT he's in training cause I guess the owners want him to do both. He's gonna race (pointed to the July Cup) and then go back to stud.

Why is this rare? I mean not to sound completely stupid here but why isn't this done too often?

Thanks.

You are grinding the India breeding market..I guess the Korean market is next? "Hi My name is MMSC I have a problem"

[Danzig]

it's rare because studdish behavior is generally frowned upon and punished with horses in training. it's hard to keep their minds on racing and training if all they want to think about is the fillies.
then, once they're at stud, all they're supposed to think about for several months is fillies...

no doubt it's difficult to switch that behavior on and off. or maybe it's rare because it's rarely tried? most horses at stud aren't 'dual purpose'....i remember when we visited three chimneys that they said it was difficult at first to convince insurers to allow the studs to be ridden. i can imagine the reaction if some of those horses were put back in training!

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by freddymo

You are grinding the India breeding market..I guess the Korean market is next? "Hi My name is MMSC I have a problem"

Oh be quiet this is Ace were talking about!

What do these horses have in common?

Ouija Board
Bago
Doyen
Elvstroem
Azamour
Warrsan
Antonius Pius
Soviet Song
Touch of Land
Oracle West
Grey Swallow
Phoenix Reach
Mona Lisa
Norse Dancer

He finished in front of all of them!

Pretty good for a horse who didn't win much.

Gotta love him.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's rare because studdish behavior is generally frowned upon and punished with horses in training. it's hard to keep their minds on racing and training if all they want to think about is the fillies.
then, once they're at stud, all they're supposed to think about for several months is fillies...

no doubt it's difficult to switch that behavior on and off. or maybe it's rare because it's rarely tried? most horses at stud aren't 'dual purpose'....i remember when we visited three chimneys that they said it was difficult at first to convince insurers to allow the studs to be ridden. i can imagine the reaction if some of those horses were put back in training!

Thank you!

[Danzig]

don't thank me yet....i might get accused of ignorance again and then you'd doubt what i told you.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Danzig

don't thank me yet....i might get accused of ignorance again and then you'd doubt what i told you.

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's rare because studdish behavior is generally frowned upon and punished with horses in training. it's hard to keep their minds on racing and training if all they want to think about is the fillies.
then, once they're at stud, all they're supposed to think about for several months is fillies...

no doubt it's difficult to switch that behavior on and off. or maybe it's rare because it's rarely tried? most horses at stud aren't 'dual purpose'....i remember when we visited three chimneys that they said it was difficult at first to convince insurers to allow the studs to be ridden. i can imagine the reaction if some of those horses were put back in training!

Didn't they try this with Bertrando at one point?

[Danzig]

i don't know about bertrando, i'd have to look that up. it just seems that horses who are returned to training are those who don't attract attention at stud-or shoot blanks.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

Didn't they try this with Bertrando at one point?

Yes. I believe he retired after the 1993 season and came back in 1994.

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Yes. I believe he retired after the 1993 season and came back in 1994.

As I recall, he wasn't too interested in racing when he returned to the track. He had found the ladies much more to his liking.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Danzig

don't thank me yet....i might get accused of ignorance again and then you'd doubt what i told you.

This has always been the story I've heard as well... as mentioned above, Bertrando is a good example of why it rarely works.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

Didn't they try this with Bertrando at one point?

Looks like it. He had surgery on a knee and went back to race in 1994, winning the Goodwood. His first crop was born in 1995, so they must've used the time off to do some breeding.

But yeah, one thing I've heard is not just the studdish behavior, it's gaining weight on their front end. Is that accurate? I believe that the filling out up front and additional muscle is supposed to put more strain on their forelegs. I could be making all this up in my head, but that's what I seem to remember.

I know Citation was out for a year and came back, but I don't gather that he was bred to mares that time.

[Danzig]

citation missed his four year old season because of injury.


but yeah, it's always been my understanding that trainers don't want to deal with horses that have been to stud. doesn't seem to be a good combination.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I'll preface this by saying I know nothing about this kind of thing...

The good people at Poonawalla Stud in India were kind enough to update me on (music, please ) Ace () .

He's doing well. Happy, healthy, adored.

Anyway he has 67 foals in his first crop and they're due to begin racing later this year.

So this number... is this good? Bad? Average?

Thanks in advance!

I think 69 is a better number, but hey, why not?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Looks like it. He had surgery on a knee and went back to race in 1994, winning the Goodwood. His first crop was born in 1995, so they must've used the time off to do some breeding.

But yeah, one thing I've heard is not just the studdish behavior, it's gaining weight on their front end. Is that accurate? I believe that the filling out up front and additional muscle is supposed to put more strain on their forelegs. I could be making all this up in my head, but that's what I seem to remember.

I know Citation was out for a year and came back, but I don't gather that he was bred to mares that time.

their necks seem to get larger.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Why is this rare? I mean not to sound completely stupid here but why isn't this done too often?

Mostly insurance purposes, money. Racing always has the threat of death due to breakdown.

In other horse sports, it's not uncommon for stallions to actively compete in mixed competitions and breed mares on the side.

http://www.equine.com/46-21/dutch-wa...s-at-stud.html

http://www.thesporthorse.com/

http://irish-horses.com/