Women's World Cup

slotdirt · #1 07-12-2011, 09:28 AM

All-Star starter is meaningful stat now? Sheesh.

ANd the argument isn't Jurjjens vs. Halladay, by the way. Shoot, Hamels is probably having the better season than Halladay anyway.

Antitrust32 · #2 07-12-2011, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

All-Star starter is meaningful stat now? Sheesh.

ANd the argument isn't Jurjjens vs. Halladay, by the way. Shoot, Hamels is probably having the better season than Halladay anyway.

Hamels is close. Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball, and has been for years.

only an idiot would say that a team doesnt have the best rotation and then post a link proving said team does have the best rotation (and according to that link, best overall pitching)

slotdirt · #3 07-12-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Hamels is close. Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball, and has been for years.

only an idiot would say that a team doesnt have the best rotation and then post a link proving said team does have the best rotation (and according to that link, best overall pitching)

Halladay has been the best pitcher in baseball and a surefire hall of famer Is he in 2011? I'd say 99 out of 100 managers and GM's would take Verlander based on the two pitchers respective first half work. Halladay is a great pitcher; Verlander has been borderline unhittable this year.

On the "only an idiot" question, I presume that "only an idiot" would take precisely one statistical measurement and try to make an argument over it, particularly when a person is also using the "honor" of All-Star starter of all things to bolster one's argument. Further, "only an idiot" would quote the 19.2 vs. 17.7 PHI-ATL WAR statistic and not realize that team WAR also includes bullpens.

Stick to blindly defending Philadelphia sports rather than objective arguments; clearly the former is your strong point.

slotdirt · #4 07-12-2011, 12:45 PM

Moreover, considering the difference between the respective WAR of PHI vs. ATL is three times less than ATL and the next team in the rankings, even one blindly defending PHI should easily be able to see that there is at least an argument that ATL's staff has been as good as PHI's based on the massive difference between PHI, ATL, and the rest of the National League.

(Incidentally, Verlander's midseason WAR of 5.4 compromises all but .7 of the entire Detroit pitching staff's WAR for 2011, and that includes another pitcher who is also in double digits in wins - shows just how valuable "wins" are as a defining statistic for pitchers...)

Antitrust32 · #5 07-12-2011, 12:58 PM

i've already said that Atlanta has the best bullpen in all of baseball. nobody is going to say their rotation is better than the Phillies.

you are such a Philly hater (why is that?) that you cant admit when you are wrong about them.

Phillies, hands down, have the best rotation in baseball.

how is it possible, considering the Phillies offense has pretty much sucked all year... and the team has 57 wins and the best record in baseball... while playing in the most difficult division in the National League?

you hate on everything Philly. I'm not a homer because I know our rotation is best, its all there in the facts and stats. Me being a homer would say that the Phillies have a good offense (they dont). Me being a homer would say that I'm not worried about the bullpen missing 3 of their top pitchers (I am). you, not realizing they do have the best rotation in baseball, are a hater.

seriously... you'd take the Braves rotation over the Phils??

I know for a fact I'd take the Braves bullpen over the phillies, even if I think they are over-worked at this point. Phillies have the least used bullpen in the NL... wanna know why? their unbelievable rotation.

Antitrust32 · #6 07-12-2011, 01:01 PM

I hate this freaking arguement. I've made it a point all year not to boast on the Phillies unbelievable first half because I'm superstitious. But I couldnt resist your stupidity. Now watch Halladay go on the DL, and Hamels have a 3.9 ERA for the rest of the year.

MaTH716 · #7 07-12-2011, 01:02 PM

Aunty, more importantly.

Hope Solo

Antitrust32 · #8 07-12-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Moreover, considering the difference between the respective WAR of PHI vs. ATL is three times less than ATL and the next team in the rankings, even one blindly defending PHI should easily be able to see that there is at least an argument that ATL's staff has been as good as PHI's based on the massive difference between PHI, ATL, and the rest of the National League.

(Incidentally, Verlander's midseason WAR of 5.4 compromises all but .7 of the entire Detroit pitching staff's WAR for 2011, and that includes another pitcher who is also in double digits in wins - shows just how valuable "wins" are as a defining statistic for pitchers...)

if they were as good they wouldnt be 1.5 points behind. You can say, that they have been as close to the phils compared to every other team. and you are still a dumbass. I said the link you posted showed it as TEAM PITCHING. it also proved it as a ROTATION... did you notice 3 of the top 7 on that list are Philadelphia starters?? need new glasses?

I'd still take the Giants and / or Rangers rotation over the Braves. I think Jurrjens could be this years Jimenez... great first half, tail off the 2nd half. He has not logged a lot of innings, so it could catch up to him. Hopefully not though, I enjoy good competition.

slotdirt · #9 07-12-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

if they were as good they wouldnt be 1.5 points behind. You can say, that they have been as close to the phils compared to every other team. and you are still a dumbass. I said the link you posted showed it as TEAM PITCHING. it also proved it as a ROTATION... did you notice 3 of the top 7 on that list are Philadelphia starters?? need new glasses?

I'd still take the Giants and / or Rangers rotation over the Braves. I think Jurrjens could be this years Jimenez... great first half, tail off the 2nd half. He has not logged a lot of innings, so it could catch up to him. Hopefully not though, I enjoy good competition.

P.S. - why would you say this? Jurjjens in his four ATL years has proven to be a better than average pitcher in three of them, and his second halfs haven't been any worse than his first (not to mention the fact that he's not even near his peak seasons yet). For someone who likes to tell someone else that they don't watch a lot of baseball (as if that is relevant to a sport that plays 162 games and is wholly reliant on statistics), you clearly don't know a whole heck of a lot about the best pitcher on one of your team's biggest rivals.

Antitrust32 · #10 07-12-2011, 02:30 PM

when it comes to Verlander and Halladay... they have been almost equal for the year.

Verlander: 20 starts; 151 innings ; 147 strikeouts; 31 walks; 2.15 ERA

Halladay: 19 starts; 143.1 innings; 138 strikeouts; 17 walks; 2.45 ERA

pretty equal. While Verlander has a slightly lower ERA, Halladay has a much greater Strikeout to walk ratio. both have been horses. its hard to tell them apart, especially when you look at the last 10 Game log:

Verlander: W L W W W W W W W W

Halladay: W W W W W W W W W W

and those are TEAM wins, not individual win / loss. the only thing that matters is the team winning in the end.

slotdirt · #11 07-12-2011, 02:37 PM

To wit - Jurrjens in 2009 (easily his best season to date - as a 23 year old) pitched 44 innings in the month of September (presumably antitrust's predicted tail-off period), and gave up but seven earned runs in that period. 2010, he was hurt and missed like half the season, so that doesn't count. In 2008, he had two really good starts coming down the stretch, and two really mediocre ones, so we'll call that a wash. In 2007, he didn't even come to the big leagues until mid-August and was 21, so I don't think we can hold that against him either.

In any event, Jurrjens is only 25 and has a freaking 1.87 ERA at the midpoint of the season and a 205 ERA+ (which if it holds, would be the best ERA+ season in baseball by a pitcher not named Martinez or Clemens since Kevin Brown in 1996). I'd say he's going to win the Cy Young if he continues to pitch this way.

Which brings me back to your original statement of:

"btw, so far phillies pitching staff is meeting / exceeding expectations."

To which I replied:

"They are? I'm not even sure their rotation is the best in baseball right now, let alone best of all time as folks were predicting preseason."

And has generated about two pages of you calling me every name you can think of. Meanwhile, the Phillies rotation really are exceeding expectations? Because I heard they were going to have the best rotation EVER. Can you honestly say that the 2011 Philadelphia Phillies have the best rotation in major league baseball history? Because that would be the only real way they could have somehow exceeded their expectations.

Antitrust32 · #12 07-14-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Halladay has been the best pitcher in baseball and a surefire hall of famer Is he in 2011? I'd say 99 out of 100 managers and GM's would take Verlander based on the two pitchers respective first half work. Halladay is a great pitcher; Verlander has been borderline unhittable this year.

point.

LOL