A great day for the sport.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by 3kings

What are your ideas for in race betting? How would this work?

It's something fairly new in Europe that would be much better suited for dirt racing where pace is more important and running style tactics can be harder to predict.

Here's an example of the odds moving in-running on an eventual winner. The odds are in the right hand corner. The Eventual winner goes from as low as 3-1 odds at one point in the race to as high as 23-1 odds on the far turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkrbE...feature=relmfu


Here's an example of what the betting screen looks like during the race with the prices moving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVQc2YVgXwc

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I totally agree that the 3 to 4 horse thing isn't really helping a newbie. But do we really want to teach people to identify the favorite every race and try and make money with it?

I don't have the right answer, and I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong. Of course everyone isn't going to "understand" everything about handicapping. But, as we all eventually did, we got introduced and found a method we use. I just wonder if oversimplifying things would become counterproductive.

Exposure or lack of is also a big problem facing the game. How many newbies who were at Belmont on Saturday, would know how to access (not even talk about betting yet) races just to watch? After a while of watching, you would hope that some of these people would start wanting to bet some races. Obviously educating these fans and teaching them how to cap is an issue that some what goes hand in hand with this. But, this is an area that I thought NYRA did a poor job this weekend. They should have had kiosks promoting NYRA Awards accounts. Explain to people that don't know, that you can watch and wager at home. Give people 20% (random number) towards their account for every dollar they deposit. At least throw the net out and try to gain some more interest in the sport. Like I said, I really thought that they dropped the ball in this aspect.

Doug brings up poker, it's programmed and advertised on consistent basis. The more I think about it, he could be on to something with the exchange wagering idea. Poker players could go hours without playing a hand, so that needing the constant action/thrill isn't really an issue. I almost look at it like the way people day trade. I'm still not 100% how it works, but from what I know it's really a very interesting concept.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I totally agree that the 3 to 4 horse thing isn't really helping a newbie. But do we really want to teach people to identify the favorite every race and try and make money with it?

I don't have the right answer, and I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong. Of course everyone isn't going to "understand" everything about handicapping. But, as we all eventually did, we got introduced and found a method we use. I just wonder if oversimplifying things would become counterproductive.

The NYRA format is already far and away closest to the step that will educate the newbie given the wealth of information that is given and why one should or should select a particular horse. That said, rather than having Maggie tell you the 6 has dapples, why not have her sit in front of a computer and show how one would bet the horses given the information that Andy and Eric provided?

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Educating new fans and current bettors is all well and good -- but they're going to need a whole lot of disposable time and income and they're going to struggle against that rake.

It's a noble but wasted effort.

You have to detach the "suckers game" label that cripples the sport so badly.

Younger people will educate themselves. Poker is absolutely dominated by young people. Many of the best players in the world are only in their 20's.

I believe horse racing could certainly become a lot bigger deal than sports like the NFL, MLB, and NBA if you see a combination of betting exchanges, in-race betting, and low exotic takeout rates in play.

A show like SportsCenter would ultimately feature at least as much horse racing coverage as it would for any other sport.

It wouldn't be a big deal for serious people who know nothing about horse racing right now to eventually be betting $20,000 - $40,000 -- $50,000 on a race. More horses would be bred, tracks that really ought to be closed would thrive. The whole industry would be a ton better off.

Anyone who thinks that's unrealistic is clueless as far as I'm concerned.

If you don't address the suckers game label -- you're just staying in the same old position you're in right now.

You need 7-day a week fans that will carry the water and bet at least hundreds of dollars on several races each day -- these type of people don't care about horse racing right now.

Every time I read one of these posts I am forced to reflect on my own gambling. In a casino I will only play craps and will only play correctly since anything else is a suckers game. Then I gamble on horses...

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Every time I read one of these posts I am forced to reflect on my own gambling. In a casino I will only play craps and will only play correctly since anything else is a suckers game. Then I gamble on horses...

Me too - throw in sit down poker also (not Carribbean Stud or Three Card). If you are going to play a "negative expectation" game, craps is the best one by far.

Always play double odds and get that vig down to 0.6%. Bypass the hardways and play either place or come bets (again with double odds). It won't take too much of a streak to come out positive against the low vig.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Me too - throw in sit down poker also (not Carribbean Stud or Three Card). If you are going to play a "negative expectation" game, craps is the best one by far.

Always play double odds and get that vig down to 0.6%. Bypass the hardways and play either place or come bets (again with double odds). It won't take too much of a streak to come out positive against the low vig.

I am a three come better after the point table min+max odds. While very rarely hitting home runs I do pretty well over time.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

I am a three come better after the point table min+max odds. While very rarely hitting home runs I do pretty well over time.

Investigate starting with a Don't Pass and 2 Don't Comes , no odds on either and when the shooter hits a point start betting pass and and your come bet with odds. You will be a winner on Cold tables until it turns in your favor. You will be a loser if things fall in a specific order. Research it.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

The NYRA format is already far and away closest to the step that will educate the newbie given the wealth of information that is given and why one should or should select a particular horse. That said, rather than having Maggie tell you the 6 has dapples, why not have her sit in front of a computer and show how one would bet the horses given the information that Andy and Eric provided?

I think Maggie's area of expertise in in how horses look physically, so she is supposed to be telling us who has dapples and whatnot. But, I agree (and think it's a great idea) that it would be beneficial to have someone showing people how to go about betting the horse or horses they like.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by jms62

Investigate starting with a Don't Pass and 2 Don't Comes , no odds on either and when the shooter hits a point start betting pass and and your come bet with odds. You will be a winner on Cold tables until it turns in your favor. You will be a loser if things fall in a specific order. Research it.

Mathematically I cannot argue a bit.
I am so against seeing any money on that line though and tend to start yelling at the don't bettors about how badly they are about to get beat. And I never drink while or before playing dice.

[rpncaine]

I hate it when people get pissed that I'm playing the "don't" side! I just smile and rake my chips in while the dealer is taking theirs.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by rpncaine

I hate it when people get pissed that I'm playing the "don't" side! I just smile and rake my chips in while the dealer is taking theirs.

I try and make it fun for everyone. It is usually easy since I tend to be the sober one at the table.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I think Maggie's area of expertise in in how horses look physically, so she is supposed to be telling us who has dapples and whatnot. But, I agree (and think it's a great idea) that it would be beneficial to have someone showing people how to go about betting the horse or horses they like.

My question is are the newbies listening to Andy and the gang? If they are do they understand it? I listen and have learned a great deal about handicapping but a lot of it deals with race dynamics, trips, and stats that are garnered from formulator etc......

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Mathematically I cannot argue a bit.
I am so against seeing any money on that line though and tend to start yelling at the don't bettors about how badly they are about to get beat. And I never drink while or before playing dice.

I just tell them to just make a point and I'll be your friend.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by jms62

I just tell them to just make a point and I'll be your friend.

Fair enough request.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Mathematically I cannot argue a bit.
I am so against seeing any money on that line though and tend to start yelling at the don't bettors about how badly they are about to get beat. And I never drink while or before playing dice.

The last time I played dice drunk I lost $1,100 in about 25 minutes and all with my girlfriend standing and watching.

She was getting pale near the end and kept saying "oh my god, I want to vomit"

I was annoyed, but laughing at her and just told her I'm glad I'm getting my share of my bad luck out of the way here tonight.

I'd won about eight or nine times in a row prior for sessions where I tried to make $100. The time eventually comes where you have to pay the piper and the edge in their favor plays itself out.

After getting beat for $1,100 you just have to give up on trying to force the winning session. The casino has more cash than you do.

You keep winning $100 everytime -- sometimes it's a battle, sometimes it's the quickest and easiest thing in the world -- and you're getting comps left and right. But all it takes is one crazy streak that you find the wrong side of ... and you get hurt.

It's a fun time up there at 2AM on a Monday.

You get 10X odds in the back -- so the takeout is much less than 0.5%.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

The last time I played dice drunk I lost $1,100 in about 25 minutes and all with my girlfriend standing and watching.

She was getting pale near the end and kept saying "oh my god, I want to vomit"

I was annoyed, but laughing at her and just told her I'm glad I'm getting my share of my bad luck out of the way here tonight.

I'd won about eight or nine times in a row prior for sessions where I tried to make $100. The time eventually comes where you have to pay the piper and the edge in their favor plays itself out.

After getting beat for $1,100 you just have to give up on trying to force the winning session. The casino has more cash than you do.

You keep winning $100 everytime -- sometimes it's a battle, sometimes it's the quickest and easiest thing in the world -- and you're getting comps left and right. But all it takes is one crazy streak that you find the wrong side of ... and you get hurt.

It's a fun time up there at 2AM on a Monday.

You get 10X odds in the back -- so the takeout is much less than 0.5%.

I keep the wife by my side and she keeps every chip of a different color than I started with that comes my way. I have walked away a loser many times to learn I had $300 in her bag. My usual goal is to double the stake and leave.
You are getting 10x on all number or just 4 and 10? 10x on 5,6,8,9 seems like the casino would be putting the odds in your favor at least one or two players anyway.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by rpncaine

I hate it when people get pissed that I'm playing the "don't" side! I just smile and rake my chips in while the dealer is taking theirs.

Yeah -- At first tell him "I'm not bettting against you, I'm betting against the dice"

If that's not good enough and he shoots a loser - tell him "the way you shoot, I should just sneak a GPS on your car and follow you around and bet against you everytime"

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

I keep the wife by my side and she keeps every chip of a different color than I started with that comes my way. I have walked away a loser many times to learn I had $300 in her bag. My usual goal is to double the stake and leave.
You are getting 10x on all number or just 4 and 10? 10x on 5,6,8,9 seems like the casino would be putting the odds in your favor at least one or two players anyway.

Yes -- you can get 10X in the back on any number, including the 4 and 10, at fair odds.

In other words -- if you bet $5 on the pass and $50 in the back and the point is a 4. You'll make $5 up front (even money) and $100 in the back (2/1 odds)

If you bet $5 on the don't pass and the point is a 4. You can lay $100 to win $50 (1/2 odds) if they don't make the 4 and obviously you'll get even money on the front line bet.

[rpncaine]

When the table is cold I love to play the 4 and 10. With $5 don't pass and max odds and a small cover on the hard way means only on dice combo can beat me.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Yes -- you can get 10X in the back on any number, including the 4 and 10, at fair odds.

In other words -- if you bet $5 on the pass and $50 in the back and the point is a 4. You'll make $5 up front (even money) and $100 in the back (2/1 odds)

If you bet $5 on the don't pass and the point is a 4. You can lay $100 to win $50 (1/2 odds) if they don't make the 4 and obviously you'll get even money on the front line bet.

I need to go to PA. 10x on the easy numbers is lovely, best I ever got was 8x on 6,8 and 9x on 5,9.