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#1
06-14-2012, 01:09 PM
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KY Derby Point System
* Grade 1 Routes (mile and up) (20-10-4-2)
* Grade 2 Routes on dirt or synthetic (10-5-2-1) * Grade 3 Routes on dirt or synthetic and all Grade 1 sprints (6-3-1) It's much more simple, competent, and fair than the point system they came up. 
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#2
06-14-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
__________________
"I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'."
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#4
06-14-2012, 02:07 PM
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Even worse -- a 4th place finish in the UAE Derby is worth as much as a win in the Breeders Cup Juvenile.
Yang Tse Kiang gets 40 points just for finishing 2nd to Daddy Long Legs in the UAE Derby. Daddy Long Legs had 100 points. Arazi, Sweetnorthernsaint, War Emblem, Charismatic, Mine That Bird, Lemon Drop Kid, Birdstone, Ten Most Wanted, Eight Belles, Giacomo, and Sea Hero --- they had a combined total of 104 points and all ran in the Ky Derby. So, Daddy Long Legs (100 points) VS 5 different Kentucky Derby winners, two others who were post time favorite in the Derby, and 4 different Travers winners with 104 points.
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#5
06-14-2012, 02:25 PM
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They came close to having a good idea here... this thing definitely needs to be tinkered with.
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#6
06-14-2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Just come out with something simple like this... Quote:
And pretty much no one could complain.
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#7
06-14-2012, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Felix Unger talking to Oscar Madison: "Your horse could finish third by 20 lengths and they still pay you? And you have been losing money for all these years?!"
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#8
06-14-2012, 02:45 PM
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The point system they came up with is much more complicated than the Graded earnings system.
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#9
06-14-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
 Did this even make the Kentucky Derby organizer's radar?
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#10
06-14-2012, 04:22 PM
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Things pop up now and again that make people complain about the graded earnings system (Danthebluegrassman, Homeboykris come to mind).
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
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#11
06-14-2012, 04:33 PM
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Homeboykris bumped out A Little Warm, who was next in line.
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#12
06-14-2012, 05:14 PM
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The new system sets up nicely as a Game system for an audience. In fact, it coincides perfectly with the Road To The Roses Fantasy game.
However, it may cause some havoc in the real world of horse racing, and the Derby trail. Forget the 2 yo races, they won't be at all important anymore. This may lead to a greater stress on young 3 yo's in a short period of time (February-April) and increased amount of high profile horse breakdowns.
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#14
06-14-2012, 06:14 PM
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The top point earner among the filly only races could get an invite...
100 points for the UAE Derby when the BC Juvenile is valued at 10 points is laughable, and makes one think of total and complete bribery... By offering only 10 points to some of the key 2yo end of season races, you are basically going to see many horses(especially relevant horses) skip these races altogether pointing towards the large point valued races. Are we going to have 15+ horse fields in the key prep races? Auxiliary gates? Or AE lists 10 deep?
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#15
06-14-2012, 07:05 PM
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One of my chief concerns is the spread of points is far too great. The 1st and 2nd place finishers of the 100 point stakes are all but assured of being in if they had accumulated any points previously. Plus with the UAE Derby unlikely to get many American shippers you have made the entries in these races contentious which could lead to trouble as graded earning are usually used for preference and those pesky sprinters might get in the way again.
Just find it hard to believe that the Sunland Derby is 5 times more valuable than the Champagne and the UAE Derby is 10 times more valuable than the BC Juvy. The spread is just way too much.
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#16
06-14-2012, 10:38 PM
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The idea is spot on, the value of the races is out in left field, IMO... some alteration to the point values of the races, and I think they have got it.
Also Baffert touched on something interesting about field sizes and post positions. Since they are moving the Derby to a point based system, then I believe that the high point earners should get choice of post position in the Derby gates, this will promote more participation in these races.
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#17
06-15-2012, 12:37 AM
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They are just in the wrong direction. Champagne should be 5x Sunland Derby and the BCJ should be 10x UAE D.
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#18
06-15-2012, 06:06 AM
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I'd like to know who the person or people was who were responsible for it by name.
It just seems like the work of people who are extremely petty and who did an extremely poor job of thinking out something that should have been simple and straight-forward. Making a point system that is simple, competent, fair and designed to help one-day-a-year fans follow the event better is something so easy, a monkey should be able to do it.
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#19
06-15-2012, 06:22 AM
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I suppose they could try and say something like "you can't compare this system with past years, because the connections of the horses in past years would have planned differently and got the points" But, in many cases, that is simply 100% not true. War Emblem tried the Fairgrounds route -- He was dusted in the Risen Star. They had abandoned any Derby hopes for him and took him home for the Illi Derby. Even after he destroyed Repent and ran a 112 Beyer in the ILLI Derby -- his connections weren't going to run him in the Derby. Baffert came in and bought him. War Emblem (A Derby, Preakness, and Haskell winner) would never have qualified. He had 0 points and nothing about his prep schedule would have changed. Lukas rushed Proud Citizen back for a bid at the Derby. PC ran 7th in the SA Derby. He wasn't in a position where he could have done anything different. Even if you say 'well, connections would have just planned different' -- ah no, third place finisher Perfect Drift is the Kentucky Derby winner in 2002.
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#20
06-16-2012, 08:04 AM
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They could have just tweaked the graded earnings system by discounting the 2yo and filly races, and we could have a better system. I was always irked by the cry for somebody on the bubble who scheduled a 2 prep spring and then fell short of expectations in one of them. I agree completely that 2yo races and sprints should be discounted, but not by a 10-1 ratio. If you're going to do that, how about discounting your beloved Bluegrass since it's not on dirt? The breeders will never let that happen, but with so much emphasis on the March/April races, the Bluegrass will become more irrelevant than ever in terms of producing Derby contenders, and instead will continue a parade of turf bred misfits. If you have a proven dirt Derby contender needing a few more points, do you go to Keenland?
The other thing I don't like is that they are assigning the races to run and taking it out of the track hands. Somewhere like Sunland bumps purses to try to make themselves a relevant Derby prep, but it would now be hard for somebody else to step up to the plate putting money in the game because nobody will take that route since Churchill says it isn't the way to go.
__________________
Do I think Charity can win? Well, I am walking around in yesterday's suit.
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