Flow chart we can agree on

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

People being paid in cash to avoid taxes are stealing from the pot.

People being paid in cash to avoid taxes and still receive unemployment, food stamps, SSI etc. are stealing twice.

Get it now?

Since illegals aren't allowed to participate in the exchanges are they still able to send their illegal children to public school? And who pays for that?

what pot?
i understand exactly why people get paid cash, so you can hold the condescension.
in my opinion, it's the payer, not the receiver, who is most at fault. he makes out, as he hasn't got to pay matching ss, workers comp, etc, etc, etc. the employer is the one actually committing the crime. a worker paid in cash is getting no favors done for himself. it's when he doesn't claim his income that he then breaks a rule. you can't claim unemployment when there's no employment on record. and when he retires, he's in for a shock.
and i'd wager that the vast majority of people on assistance aren't working on the side, whether for cash or any other reason.
as for illegals and their children, i don't know what the actual numbers of illegal families are in country. seems that most migrant workers come alone, leaving families behind in their native country.
but yes, kids who attend class would be part of what the state uses to decide funding to each school.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

And still you cannot read. NOT FOR MY COMPANIES, over and over. Pointless. Another thread likely to die as a result of your reading comprehension. Shame no one ever gets to finish a discussion or debate around here.

You admit your boss avoided paying taxes and avoided checking hires for alien status as the law requires. So what if you knew they were all college kids? I'm not doubting you did, or they were. They avoided paying taxes, too, and you and your boss enabled that. You went along with it, didn't you?

Your boss broke multiple laws here, and you know it.

And people like your boss breaking those laws, in the manner he did, enables illegal aliens who do not have fake social security numbers to work in the United States. He is part of the problem of "illegals". A big part.

He's also a tax evader that hurts you, me, and everyone else. And he enables his employees to tax-evade, too.

Stop whining and screaming about it and trying to blame me for pointing out the reality of a situation YOU posted about.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Are illegals going to be required to obtain health insurance? Or are we going to treat them status quo? You know thru the ER.

BTW Legals who are being paid under the table to avoid having beni's cancelled are worse than illegals doing the same IMO.

No, illegal aliens are illegal.

Illegals paid under the table can't get "beni's". Are you really so ignorant you don't know how government programs you constantly rail against work?

[Riot]

Since illegals aren't allowed to participate in the exchanges are they still able to send their illegal children to public school? And who pays for that?

Illegals with fake social security numbers pay for it themselves.

Illegals without faked SS numbers, who are hired in situations like Clip Clops boss who doesn't bother to check status and just pays cash, have us paying for it.

Illegals of both stripes still pay local taxes when they buy groceries, etc.

And Clip Clop's boss is taking money out of our school systems (and all publicly-funded programs, including our military) in two ways: the taxes he should be paying on his employees, and the taxes his non-paying cash employees should be paying. And that doesn't matter if his employees are illegal or not. It's still deliberate tax evasion.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

You admit your boss avoided paying taxes and avoided checking hires for alien status as the law requires. So what if you knew they were all college kids? I'm not doubting you did, or they were. They avoided paying taxes, too, and you and your boss enabled that. You went along with it, didn't you?

Your boss broke multiple laws here, and you know it.

And people like your boss breaking those laws, in the manner he did, enables illegal aliens who do not have fake social security numbers to work in the United States. He is part of the problem of "illegals". A big part.

He's also a tax evader that hurts you, me, and everyone else. And he enables his employees to tax-evade, too.

Stop whining and screaming about it and trying to blame me for pointing out the reality of a situation YOU posted about.

Reading comprehension classes. Please.

I hire college graduates. All citizens and tax payers.
I have worked in the industries I referenced earlier that are heavily populated by illegal day workers and have seen, and handed cash to illegal workers. I have no boss. I own my companies and do not practice this crime.

That said.
Try working in a kitchen and going to the owner of the restaurant and telling him that he is a criminal for hiring illegals to work the line. See if you get to keep your job. Then tell him you will report him to the authorities fully aware of the fact that nothing at all will happen from this reporting.
Do that while working in an Italian restaurant in NJ when you are 17 years old (and on the books) and let me know how that works out for you.
Or choose a concrete company in the same location, same scenario but now you are 19.
Or a landscaping company whose owner you know very well and has just given you your first management position at 21.

Your arguments are never based in any kind of reality.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Reading comprehension classes. Please.

I hire college graduates. All citizens and tax payers.

I ask you to have the reading comprehension. I am discussing the situation with your boss, as you described it and participated in it. Not your companies you have now with you as the boss.

You said:

Those folks are paid daily in cash. I have paid them myself (though not for my companies)

And you said your boss gave you cash to pay them

When the boss handed me cash to give to the daily guys, I gave it to them,

Duh.

That you follow the law now, with your own companies, where your former boss did not, is a good thing.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

I ask you to have the reading comprehension. I am discussing the situation with your boss, as you described it and participated in it. Not your companies you have now with you as the boss.

You said:


And you said your boss gave you cash to pay them.

Duh.

See above.

[Riot]

Clip Clip said:
That said.
Try working in a kitchen and going to the owner of the restaurant and telling him that he is a criminal for hiring illegals to work the line. See if you get to keep your job. Then tell him you will report him to the authorities fully aware of the fact that nothing at all will happen from this reporting.
Do that while working in an Italian restaurant in NJ when you are 17 years old (and on the books) and let me know how that works out for you.
Or choose a concrete company in the same location, same scenario but now you are 19.
Or a landscaping company whose owner you know very well and has just given you your first management position at 21.

Your arguments are never based in any kind of reality.

The reality is, as I said, it is American citizens who are deliberately breaking the law, and you scapegoating the illegals only, while making multiple excuses for American bosses breaking the law, is absurd.

The American citizen bosses who choose to deliberately break the law, and hire illegals who do not have faked ID (which protects a boss who checks according to the law), are the only reason those illegals are able to work in the US.

You defending such lawbreaking Americans is absurd.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

The reality is, as I said, it is American citizens who are deliberately breaking the law, and you scapegoating the illegals only, while making multiple excuses for American bosses breaking the law, is absurd.

The American citizen bosses who choose to deliberately break the law, and hire illegals who do not have faked ID (which protects a boss who checks according to the law), are the only reason those illegals are able to work in the US.

You defending such lawbreaking Americans is absurd.

WRONG again.

"Absolutely, please suggest a punishment for those people. I would suggest something severe enough that they will hire Americans to do those jobs instead."

I am defending my decision to not report the people I worked for to an authority I knew would do nothing about it.

That is what I said, you chose not to answer my question (as per usual) and ignore (or fail to comprehend) the comment.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

WRONG again.

"Absolutely, please suggest a punishment for those people. I would suggest something severe enough that they will hire Americans to do those jobs instead."

I am defending my decision to not report the people I worked for to an authority I knew would do nothing about it.

Yeah. And as I have already said, tolerating lawbreaking like you did, and your boss actually did in breaking the laws himself, is exactly what enables it's continuance, isn't it? That is exactly what enables illegal aliens to work without fake ID, isn't it?

I asked you, posts ago, what punishment you think should be enacted, over and above what currently exists in the law, to prevent that, to intimidate men like your boss to not do it, to intimidate people like you with direct knowledge to report lawbreakers like them. You failed to answer.

BTW, your assumption nothing would be done to tax cheats and illegal hiring is beyond absurd and with zero merit. It's pursued whenever it's found. People like you enable it by not reporting it. I understand you are in fear of your job. That's why there are whistleblower laws to protect you. You made your choice not to report it. Fine.

But don't you dare only blame illegal aliens for working in the US, while excusing the American citizen bosses and employees that enable it while screwing the rest of us out of tax money our states and country is entitled to.

[dellinger63]

I still wonder how incapable our INS must be?

For Allah's sake those Iranians were able to detect two little women crossing over the second it happened. Just ask Al Gore.

What's the INS budget per year? Or better that n Obama terms over ten years?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I still wonder how incapable our INS must be?

For Allah's sake those Iranians were able to detect two little women crossing over the second it happened. Just ask Al Gore.

What's the INS budget per year? Or better that n Obama terms over ten years?

Considering how many illegals Obama has deported, and how illegal immigration over our southern borders has decreased, I'd say they are pretty capable. You can look up the INS budget if you really cared about reality.

[Clip-Clop]

Southern border crossing has decreased due to the economy here.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah. And as I have already said, tolerating lawbreaking like you did, and your boss actually did in breaking the laws himself, is exactly what enables it's continuance, isn't it? That is exactly what enables illegal aliens to work without fake ID, isn't it?

I asked you, posts ago, what punishment you think should be enacted, over and above what currently exists in the law, to prevent that, to intimidate men like your boss to not do it, to intimidate people like you with direct knowledge to report lawbreakers like them. You failed to answer.

BTW, your assumption nothing would be done to tax cheats and illegal hiring is beyond absurd and with zero merit. It's pursued whenever it's found. People like you enable it by not reporting it. I understand you are in fear of your job. That's why there are whistleblower laws to protect you. You made your choice not to report it. Fine.

But don't you dare only blame illegal aliens for working in the US, while excusing the American citizen bosses and employees that enable it while screwing the rest of us out of tax money our states and country is entitled to.

OK.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Southern border crossing has decreased due to the economy here.

that's true. immigration, legal or otherwise is down. so is application for work visas, etc.

[bigrun]

A simple solution to put a stop to hiring illegals..

IRS agents raid a couple headquarter buildings of large companies, at night.
Scoop up all the illegals, they will be the ones with mops and brooms..
Front page news and scares the schit out of other law breakers..
Then for good measure, arrest a couple blonde housewifes in Texas (no disrespect for any here) that are using Juan's family to mow the grass and clean house and throw their asses in jail.
Huge fines for all law breakers..Problem solved..

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by bigrun

A simple solution to put a stop to hiring illegals..

IRS agents raid a couple headquarter buildings of large companies, at night.
Scoop up all the illegals, they will be the ones with mops and brooms..
Front page news and scares the schit out of other law breakers..
Then for good measure, arrest a couple blonde housewifes in Texas (no disrespect for any here) that are using Juan's family to mow the grass and clean house and throw their asses in jail.
Huge fines for all law breakers..Problem solved..

they do raid companies that hire and pay under the table. that's because there is no $$ being collected. now, those who do it correctly, they won't raid-why would they? the money goes into the system, but anyone making up an ss # will never get it back out. and the employer pays in his 7.5% as well. what in the world would the feds want to stop that for?

[Danzig]

and, as i've said before when people want to know why illegal immigration isn't halted-'follow the money'...check out this story:

http://news.yahoo.com/immigrants-pro...084353195.html


MIAMI (AP) — The U.S. is locking up more illegal immigrants than ever, generating lucrative profits for the nation's largest prison companies, and an Associated Press review shows the businesses have spent tens of millions of dollars lobbying lawmakers and contributing to campaigns.

The cost to American taxpayers is on track to top $2 billion for this year, and the companies are expecting their biggest cut of that yet in the next few years thanks to government plans for new facilities to house the 400,000 immigrants detained annually.

After a decade of expansion, the sprawling, private system runs detention centers everywhere from a Denver suburb to an industrial area flanking Newark's airport, and is largely controlled by just three companies.

The growth is far from over, despite the sheer drop in illegal immigration in recent years.




This seismic shift toward a privatized system happened quietly. While Congress' unsuccessful efforts to overhaul immigration laws drew headlines and sparked massive demonstrations, lawmakers' negotiations to boost detention dollars received far less attention.

The industry's giants — Corrections Corporation of America, The GEO Group, and Management and Training Corp. — have spent at least $45 million combined on campaign donations and lobbyists at the state and federal level in the last decade, the AP found.

[Danzig]

so, when you want to know why the fed doesn't want to allow states to enforce immigration....or why obama's admin isn't concerned with actually making sure people qualify under his rules that were announced....

it's always, always about the .