My Happy Face

[my miss storm cat]

I was much more impressed with this girl than the other (some of them much-anticipated) 2 year olds this weekend.

Thoughts on this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpEmKyZrGbE

[Calzone Lord]

I was a big fan of her sire Tiz Wonderful and 21 length wins going 5.5 furlongs are impressive -- but the only two horses who could run in that race both scratched.

The 3rd place finisher (beaten about 27 lengths) was a first-time starter who I knew couldn't run. I put her on the bums list as a 1st time starter.

[Indian Charlie]

Tiz Wonderful was probably the best horse in his crop, and will probably be the best sire from that crop.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Tiz Wonderful was probably the best horse in his crop, and will probably be the best sire from that crop.

Curlin, Hard Spun, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, Nobiz Like Shobiz.

It was a good crop and Tiz Wonderful got hurt before he could prove his place in it.

He will have an uphill battle as a sire compared to some of those -- the first four all got much better support.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Curlin, Hard Spun, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, Nobiz Like Shobiz.

It was a good crop and Tiz Wonderful got hurt before he could prove his place in it.

He will have an uphill battle as a sire compared to some of those -- the first four all got much better support.

It was a good crop, but one that was also vastly overrated. Obviously his career was not as good as those others, but talent wise, he was the clear leader.

As for being a sire, if he gets 1-2 more early winners like this one, people will go to him.

He reminds me a lot of two other short careered horses from the 90s, that went on to become pretty good stallions.

[northeastbound123]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

It was a good crop, but one that was also vastly overrated. Obviously his career was not as good as those others, but talent wise, he was the clear leader.

As for being a sire, if he gets 1-2 more early winners like this one, people will go to him.

He reminds me a lot of two other short careered horses from the 90s, that went on to become pretty good stallions.

Up early today?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by northeastbound123

Up early today?

Due to those two things I've discussed with you on the phone, I now no longer fall asleep at 5 am and wake at 10. I'm asleep by 1 usually and awake by 7ish.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

It was a good crop, but one that was also vastly overrated. Obviously his career was not as good as those others, but talent wise, he was the clear leader.

As for being a sire, if he gets 1-2 more early winners like this one, people will go to him.

He reminds me a lot of two other short careered horses from the 90s, that went on to become pretty good stallions.

Maybe if he had been in the 2008 crop, but he was not the most talented 2YO (Street Sense) nor the most talented 3YO (Curlin, Hard Spun).

Was he mis-managed? Sure, running him in the Jim Dandy off an 8 month layoff so he could get his brain bashed in was a terrible idea.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Maybe if he had been in the 2008 crop, but he was not the most talented 2YO (Street Sense) nor the most talented 3YO (Curlin, Hard Spun).

Was he mis-managed? Sure, running him in the Jim Dandy off an 8 month layoff so he could get his brain bashed in was a terrible idea.

Absolutely mismanaged.

He was more talented than any of the three you named above however.

Just not as accomplished.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Absolutely mismanaged.

He was more talented than any of the three you named above however.

Just not as accomplished.

The determination of how much talent a horse has is extremely subjective, but you're stacking him up against horses that accomplished A LOT as 3YOs while clearly having tremendous talent. One went from a maiden winner to Preakness winner in three and a half months then followed it up with two wins against older horses after placing in the other two legs of the Triple Crown.

The other had graded stakes wins from 7-9 furlongs on two different surfaces and very impressive 2nd place finishes in arguably the two toughest dirt races in this country. Curlin and Hard Spun were immensely talented 3YOs by modern standards.

Tiz Wonderful outlasted a 2YO (Any Given Saturday) who developed more as a 3YO after beating two horrendous fields to start his career.

[Calzone Lord]

Tiz Wonderful was basically a monster 2-year-old who got hurt badly at the end of his 2yo season -- and couldn't return from the injury.

Lots of those scattered throughout history -- a lot of them do extremely well as sires...especially the better bred ones.

Tiz Wonderful worked a 20.60 quarter at Fasig Tipton Calder -- tied with Forest Music for the fastest in history at that most elite 2yo sale.

A huge pile of Graded stakes winners went 2f under-tack at Calder -- and only 4 horses had broke 21 there.

You knew Tiz Wonderful was a mess and put together poorly because he only brought less than $500,000 after blowing up the stopwatch.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The determination of how much talent a horse has is extremely subjective, but you're stacking him up against horses that accomplished A LOT as 3YOs while clearly having tremendous talent. One went from a maiden winner to Preakness winner in three and a half months then followed it up with two wins against older horses after placing in the other two legs of the Triple Crown.

The other had graded stakes wins from 7-9 furlongs on two different surfaces and very impressive 2nd place finishes in arguably the two toughest dirt races in this country. Curlin and Hard Spun were immensely talented 3YOs by modern standards.

Tiz Wonderful outlasted a 2YO (Any Given Saturday) who developed more as a 3YO after beating two horrendous fields to start his career.

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Tiz Wonderful was basically a monster 2-year-old who got hurt badly at the end of his 2yo season -- and couldn't return from the injury.

Lots of those scattered throughout history -- a lot of them do extremely well as sires...especially the better bred ones.

Tiz Wonderful worked a 20.60 quarter at Fasig Tipton Calder -- tied with Forest Music for the fastest in history at that most elite 2yo sale.

A huge pile of Graded stakes winners went 2f under-tack at Calder -- and only 4 horses had broke 21 there.

You knew Tiz Wonderful was a mess and put together poorly because he only brought less than $500,000 after blowing up the stopwatch.

Every once in awhile you see a horse with so much potential, and such brilliance, you know there is no way they are going to last.

Ala, Cee's Tizzy, Indian Charlie, Melair, Akinemod, and to a degree, Tiz Wonderful.

It's a pretty obvious thing if you saw that horse run.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Every once in awhile you see a horse with so much potential, and such brilliance, you know there is no way they are going to last.

Ala, Cee's Tizzy, Indian Charlie, Melair, Akinemod, and to a degree, Tiz Wonderful.

It's a pretty obvious thing if you saw that horse run.

I was as big a Tiz Wonderful fan as you can be...but you're being ridiculous right now.

Did KYrosesinmay steal your log in?

[Brilliance]

Ala Danseuse,Mark Henning trained,( Mr. Prospector - Young Ballerina, by Nijinsky II) .
Finished after two starts.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I was as big a Tiz Wonderful fan as you can be...but you're being ridiculous right now.

Did KYrosesinmay steal your log in?

How am I being ridiculous?

Did you watch that horse run before he got hurt?

I think the problem here is that most people way over estimate the abilities of Street Sense, Hard Spun, AGS and Curlin.

The only one of those I have any reservations about is Curlin.

I am curious. Where, on ability only, do you think Danzig ranked in his crop (1980 3yos)???

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I think the problem here is that most people way over estimate the abilities of Street Sense, Hard Spun, AGS and Curlin.

They actually achieved stuff.

You're going to get the same reaction that you would get if you said Jeff George was the best QB or Bo Jackson or Marcus Dupree was the best RB.

[rpncaine]

Jeff was the best QB....at Warren Central HS.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by rpncaine

Jeff was the best QB....at Warren Central HS.

A lot of the most reputable scouts have said he was the best high school quarterback of all-time...and that if there ever was such a thing as the Quarterback Olympics -- in his prime he would have beaten anyone else in there prime.

He just didn't advance well as things became more complicated -- with running backs and race horses it's pretty much injures and physical setbacks that stop them instead of mental things.

Bo Jackson was pretty damn good...just distracted.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

They actually achieved stuff.

You're going to get the same reaction that you would get if you said Jeff George was the best QB or Bo Jackson or Marcus Dupree was the best RB.

I guess me saying on ability only, not accomplishments was missed?