Ed DeRosa tweets get attention after the Shuvee

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

She raced the same female scrubs all year long over and over in SoCal except for the BC. Granted, that his how racing goes these days. It was a double edged sword in that no trainers with good females wanted to face her much either.

But, she could have been tried in tougher races all over the country as well as at home. She didn't race in a single Big Cap, Hollywood Gold Cup, or Pacific Classic.

Yes those would have been better races, but against her own kind, which is what female horses are judged upon she really beat every one that was any good.

Her two races against males were pretty good as well I suppose.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Yes those would have been better races, but against her own kind, which is what female horses are judged upon she really beat every one that was any good.

Her two races against males were pretty good as well I suppose.

They were good. Just seemed odd she was never tried against males in the big races. Lets not pretend like her connections were on some mission to seek out any and all competition. That is all I'm saying.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

They were good. Just seemed odd she was never tried against males in the big races. Lets not pretend like her connections were on some mission to seek out any and all competition. That is all I'm saying.

John Shirreffs is the most conservative trainer I have met, before him Paco Gonzales. Had hole strings of nice horses in barn yet never ran them.

[Stickhorse]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i just want to say 'thank you' to stickhorse, for starting this thread. it's gone swimmingly.

You are very welcome.

I was surprised to see DeRosa's tweet on Saturday.

It was interesting that apparently Ed's anti-Zen feelings have never been far beneath the surface.

This entire issue though really seems to boil down to ..........

"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet."

[TouchOfGrey]

She didn't race in a single Big Cap, Hollywood Gold Cup, or Pacific Classic.

This.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Stickhorse

You are very welcome.

I was surprised to see DeRosa's tweet on Saturday.

It was interesting that apparently Ed's anti-Zen feelings have never been far beneath the surface.

This entire issue though really seems to boil down to ..........

"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet."

it did put me in mind tho of ron ellis, in regards to his mare include me out.

oh, she never gets the press she deserves, there's a bias, blah blah.

and then she got beat pretty fair and square.

people knocked easy goer because 'he only won in new york'. horses are going to get criticized, especially when they get ridiculous amounts of bizarre fans and people saying they're the best ever.
for every action there's an opposite and equal reaction-even regarding horses.

zenyattas people did what they thought was best for her. she didn't face as much as she should have to get as much praise as she got. they went after the streak, and they got it. that was their big goal. they can't complain if they don't get as much good press from everyone, since they made their choice on what was most important.
and i think many gave her more due when coming in second to blame than they did for all her other races, because it was the only time she really seemed to have to try, and she ran hard against the best competition she'd ever faced.

but the bs about her breaking every other fillies heart and stuff like that...yeah, that's what drives some people bonkers.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

John Shirreffs is the most conservative trainer I have met, before him Paco Gonzales. Had hole strings of nice horses in barn yet never ran them.

that's the point. just cuz Sherrifs was too big of a mook to realize what he should have been doing. Don't blame the hoss. She did everything asked of her. Deserved to run in the big Cap and at Saratoga. Even in her lone defeat, she ran huge, and just missed to a really game hoss. Some of her races, she looked impossibly beaten , and still got up. A couple of hosses who almost beat her, ran tremendous and still lost. If you had Gio ponti, I'm sure you thought you were home free... sherrifs for not running her against tougher = bad. Zenyatta = good. Get it straight.

[Danzig]

mook or no mook, zens owners and trainer made their bed with her, and they can't complain now if she doesn't get what they think is due her.
you want your horse to be considered great, you run her like she's great. you don't run her like she's not, and then get offended when people say her schedule didn't allow her to prove what she 'could' be. all we know is what she actually did.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Danzig

mook or no mook, zens owners and trainer made their bed with her, and they can't complain now if she doesn't get what they think is due her.
you want your horse to be considered great, you run her like she's great. you don't run her like she's not, and then get offended when people say her schedule didn't allow her to prove what she 'could' be. all we know is what she actually did.

It sounds like you don't think she was great, is that the prevailing sentiment?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

It sounds like you don't think she was great, is that the prevailing sentiment?

i can't speak for everyone, not sure it's the prevailing sentiment.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i can't speak for everyone, not sure it's the prevailing sentiment.

Whats your sentiment?

[Danzig]

i'm one of those who thinks time has to go by in order to put a horse (or anything) in a proper context. was zenyatta a great horse? i don't know.
if she's talked of in 20 years, perhaps. a horse has to do great things to be great. a horse has to stand the test of time. a winning streak alone isn't a mark of greatness (witness pepper's pride for instance). people like those, but it seems to happen with greater frequency these days, rather than with less.
you can't do the usual, and expect to get unusual accolades. they didn't test the mare. i love, love, love the story of round table. dr. fager, who hated grass but would not give up, and won on a turf course he didn't like. who carried high weight, and broke the mile record. forego, kelso, war admiral who suffered an injury that could have caused retirement during the belmont, and won the race anyway. that is greatness.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm one of those who thinks time has to go by in order to put a horse (or anything) in a proper context. was zenyatta a great horse? i don't know.
if she's talked of in 20 years, perhaps. a horse has to do great things to be great. a horse has to stand the test of time. a winning streak alone isn't a mark of greatness (witness pepper's pride for instance). people like those, but it seems to happen with greater frequency these days, rather than with less.
you can't do the usual, and expect to get unusual accolades. they didn't test the mare. i love, love, love the story of round table. dr. fager, who hated grass but would not give up, and won on a turf course he didn't like. who carried high weight, and broke the mile record. forego, kelso, war admiral who suffered an injury that could have caused retirement during the belmont, and won the race anyway. that is greatness.

She was a great racemare. She never set any track records or defeated anyone of historical significance but neither did John Henry. To me what was remarkable about her was that she was life and death against Rinterval (sp?) and Tough Tiz's Sis yet ran by the best males available in the BCC. Her races were memorable and exciting. I've never seen a horse look hopelessly beaten as many times as she was and still win. In her two greatest races the fans were treated to some the most compelling and exciting finishes in the history of the sport.

Her career is by far the most controversial one in the history of message boards. That is the only opinion I undeniably stand by.