PETA undercover in Asmussen's barn - Whoa!

[GenuineRisk]

The problem is not that there's nothing in there that is a revelation; it's that there's plenty in there for people who already oppose racing to reaffirm their personal feelings, even though those feelings might not be based in fact. Nehro's got no pulse in one foot! Therefore horse racing is cruel! (Never mind pulse in a foot is actually a bad thing)

In the comment thread on Gawker on the article someone pointed out how vastly superior UK racing is because they don't start racing them until they're four and they race there until they're twelve. Oh, and drugs have ruined the breed. And a chorus of voices chimed in on how awful it is to race horses at age 2, when they're still babies (apparently 3-year-old girls learning to ice skate and do gymnastics is not an issue because shut up that's why).

The movement to ban NYC carriage horses has really brought to light, to me, how divorced people are from the reality of the lives of domesticated animals. They infantilize horses (and dogs and cats) into perpetual victims of evil man. And this dumb PETA thing plays into every one of these preconceived notions about horses and the people who make their livings off of them.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

What is the story exactly? That horses get Lasix when they train? That horses can have bad feet that need constant attention? That horses colic and die? That undocumented workers are employed on the backstretch? Fold in the sensationalized video.. It's news that owners want to win at Saratoga? That barns are happy to lose underachievers to claims? That outfits utilize various supplements in feeding regimens? That treatment options include pin firing and shockwave therapy? What elements of the 'story' were revelations to you?

The post is insensitive to the shock that many horse fans on this noard and all over are feeling today after watching 9 minutes of hell .Most arent as close to the game as you including many on this board. Teach without subjectivity. Expose to create knowledge. Simply PuPu'ing appears as a typical sweep it under the rug response.

You know what I am talking about

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

The problem is not that there's nothing in there that is a revelation; it's that there's plenty in there for people who already oppose racing to reaffirm their personal feelings, even though those feelings might not be based in fact. Nehro's got no pulse in one foot! Therefore horse racing is cruel! (Never mind pulse in a foot is actually a bad thing)

In the comment thread on Gawker on the article someone pointed out how vastly superior UK racing is because they don't start racing them until they're four and they race there until they're twelve. Oh, and drugs have ruined the breed. And a chorus of voices chimed in on how awful it is to race horses at age 2, when they're still babies (apparently 3-year-old girls learning to ice skate and do gymnastics is not an issue because shut up that's why).

The movement to ban NYC carriage horses has really brought to light, to me, how divorced people are from the reality of the lives of domesticated animals. They infantilize horses (and dogs and cats) into perpetual victims of evil man. And this dumb PETA thing plays into every one of these preconceived notions about horses and the people who make their livings off of them.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The post is insensitive to the shock that many horse fans on this noard and all over are feeling today after watching 9 minutes of hell .Most arent as close to the game as you including many on this board. Teach without subjectivity. Expose to create knowledge. Simply PuPu'ing appears as a typical sweep it under the rug response.

You know what I am talking about

The people on this board are closer to the game than perhaps any elsewhere and will see through the sensationalized, edited-for-effect video and agenda-driven report. I do my best to teach and expose and promote the game 750 hours a year on radio and 24/7 here, but since I'm too close to be subjective, I'll let terrific insights like Doug's & GenRisk's take it from here.

[bare it all]

This is just ridiculous crap trudged up for no good reason. So Blasi has a potty mouth? He's not running for election - he's a damned horseman. Nehro had bad feet? So do many thoroughbreds. It's not even a racing thing as much a breed thing. Horses get Lasix?? No joke. Illegals work on the backside for little pay?? No kidding!! They do in a ton of other industries as well. I don't find anything presented here earth shattering news. I'm just a fan and know these things happen at the tracks. Thoroughbred racers are athletes. They have bumps and bruises and pain. Human athletes do the same things. Injections in joints. Supplements they may not need. It happens to get an edge.

Oh, and the buzzer discussion? Sounded like blasi was drunk and could have been taken out of context or joking. Also Lukas and Stevens along with others have spoken outright about the "buzzer" days. I think even Tony Black has discussed the prevalent use of machines at some tracks in the past. Nothing enlightening here.

The only awe and shock that will be happening is from those who are under the impression that the world is candy coated and nothing bad ever happens.

I can't wait to find out who this mole was. You know that part will come out. Hope PETA paid well and the Times is looking for help. This chick won't ever be allowed to set foot in a barn again.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kasept

What is the story exactly? That horses get Lasix when they train? That horses can have bad feet that need constant attention? That horses colic and die? That undocumented workers are employed on the backstretch? Fold in the sensationalized video.. It's news that owners want to win at Saratoga? That barns are happy to lose underachievers to claims? That outfits utilize various supplements in feeding regimens? That treatment options include pin firing and shockwave therapy? What elements of the 'story' were revelations to you?

I think its going to be very hard for someone who may want to get into the sport watch that video and then if they were to read your statements and have to understand that this is just normal operating procedure.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by bare it all

This is just ridiculous crap trudged up for no good reason. So Blasi has a potty mouth? He's not running for election - he's a damned horseman. Nehro had bad feet? So do many thoroughbreds. It's not even a racing thing as much a breed thing. Horses get Lasix?? No joke. Illegals work on the backside for little pay?? No kidding!! They do in a ton of other industries as well. I don't find anything presented here earth shattering news. I'm just a fan and know these things happen at the tracks. Thoroughbred racers are athletes. They have bumps and bruises and pain. Human athletes do the same things. Injections in joints. Supplements they may not need. It happens to get an edge.

Oh, and the buzzer discussion? Sounded like blasi was drunk and could have been taken out of context or joking. Also Lukas and Stevens along with others have spoken outright about the "buzzer" days. I think even Tony Black has discussed the prevalent use of machines at some tracks in the past. Nothing enlightening here.

The only awe and shock that will be happening is from those who are under the impression that the world is candy coated and nothing bad ever happens.

I can't wait to find out who this mole was. You know that part will come out. Hope PETA paid well and the Times is looking for help. This chick won't ever be allowed to set foot in a barn again.

Not to sound like a heartless prick, but the buzzer story (stories) are the biggest hand grenades in my opinion. The sport can't survive without bettors and if confidence/integrity in the actual racing becomes an issue it's the beginning of the end for the sport. Bettors already have to endure a lot with the so-called juice trainers, crazy biases. jockeys that don't know how to read a form, odds changing after gates opening etc... It's a tough enough game to win at without throwing another major wrench into the works.

I'll admit that some of the EDITED parts of the video are eye opening, but I had an idea that some of this stuff went on. Obviously no one knows how far it actually goes. But truthfully things like this don't keep me up at night and while watching/betting during the day I don't give it a second thought. Just like when I watch an NFL game and see a ref throw a garbage flag for an unnecessary hit (then I bitch & moan at the TV), I don't think of a retired player who's home on tons of medication cause he can't get out of his bed cause his brain hurts. If you followed and taped any sport/industry for months at a time and then come back with the worst 9 minutes you could vilify anything. I want to believe that the actions filmed aren't the norm on the backside (although I'll admit that my thinking could be naïve). I personally think that a large segment of racing bettors are hardened gamblers anyway, they really don't care what goes on behind the scenes. All they care about is how many minutes until the next race. Sounds heartless, but I really believe that's the truth. While this will definitely be a black eye for the sport, the people who will be most offended are the people that don't push a dime through the windows.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think its going to be very hard for someone who may want to get into the sport watch that video and then if they were to read your statements and have to understand that this is just normal operating procedure.

Very fair.. But have them actually spend time and get a complete picture of normal operating procedure. What's presented are snapshots specifically chosen to provoke negative reaction.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Very fair.. But have them actually spend time and get a complete picture of normal operating procedure. What's presented are snapshots specifically chosen to provoke negative reaction.

PETA is going to put their slant on it no doubt, they are not exactly "ethical".

Still the fact is I dont think people are all that shocked that are on these boards, its definitely a "tell me something we didnt know". Its the general public, the court of public opinion so to speak.

Maybe racing can control the message on this one?

Probably best course is to admit there is an issue, announce some kind of national panel on what they can do to solve it, not try to run from it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Someone should go undercover into Peta and make a 10 minute highlight of their shenanigans. They would cease to exist very soon afterwards.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

The problem is not that there's nothing in there that is a revelation; it's that there's plenty in there for people who already oppose racing to reaffirm their personal feelings, even though those feelings might not be based in fact. Nehro's got no pulse in one foot! Therefore horse racing is cruel! (Never mind pulse in a foot is actually a bad thing)
In the comment thread on Gawker on the article someone pointed out how vastly superior UK racing is because they don't start racing them until they're four and they race there until they're twelve. Oh, and drugs have ruined the breed. And a chorus of voices chimed in on how awful it is to race horses at age 2, when they're still babies (apparently 3-year-old girls learning to ice skate and do gymnastics is not an issue because shut up that's why).

The movement to ban NYC carriage horses has really brought to light, to me, how divorced people are from the reality of the lives of domesticated animals. They infantilize horses (and dogs and cats) into perpetual victims of evil man. And this dumb PETA thing plays into every one of these preconceived notions about horses and the people who make their livings off of them.

excellent post, especially the part about the pulse. but most people don't know that, so it's a great dog whistle.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

PETA is going to put their slant on it no doubt, they are not exactly "ethical".

Still the fact is I dont think people are all that shocked that are on these boards, its definitely a "tell me something we didnt know". Its the general public, the court of public opinion so to speak.

Maybe racing can control the message on this one?

Probably best course is to admit there is an issue, announce some kind of national panel on what they can do to solve it, not try to run from it.

And unfortunately, that's the exact opposite of what "They" will do.

Because as always there is no "They".

So it will go ignored and unaddressed with the exception of columnists and bloggers who will clamor for the "They" to react.

[GenuineRisk]

It doesn't hurt to wade into comment threads on other boards and dispel misinformation, I find. As long as you can keep your temper and limit your response to correcting to the specific error the person is stating. As a racing fan, I found the Lasix threads here very, very helpful and they really did reshape my opinion on it.

Unfortunately, it's easy for people to condemn something they have no interest in. They'll scream about undocumented workers on the backstretch, but not a word about undocumented workers harvesting the food they eat. Because they don't want to pay more for their produce. They'll scream about cruel and inhumane treatment for race horses, but not a word on far more barbaric conditions at factory farms for pigs, chickens and cows. Because they like to eat pigs, chickens and cows, want to eat it a lot and don't want it to cost very much money. But horse racing? Oh, that's easy to scream about, because nothing in their lives would change if it were gone. Sigh.

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

It doesn't hurt to wade into comment threads on other boards and dispel misinformation, I find. As long as you can keep your temper and limit your response to correcting to the specific error the person is stating. As a racing fan, I found the Lasix threads here very, very helpful and they really did reshape my opinion on it.

Unfortunately, it's easy for people to condemn something they have no interest in. They'll scream about undocumented workers on the backstretch, but not a word about undocumented workers harvesting the food they eat. Because they don't want to pay more for their produce. They'll scream about cruel and inhumane treatment for race horses, but not a word on far more barbaric conditions at factory farms for pigs, chickens and cows. Because they like to eat pigs, chickens and cows, want to eat it a lot and don't want it to cost very much money. But horse racing? Oh, that's easy to scream about, because nothing in their lives would change if it were gone. Sigh.

Good point.

[Antitrust32]

I read the reactions on here and on Facebook before I actually watched the video, so when I went to watch the video, I expected something much worse. Blasi was potty mouthed but passionate about the animals. You can still curse something you love, take my Philly Eagles for example. I really didnt see any abuse either besides maybe Nehro should have been retired long before, I see how Zayat was made to look bad (and the horse should have been retired if the feet were that bad) but besides that, a lot of normal procedures.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Arletta

Good point.

Hmmm, was Riot the vet that stated Lasix is a performance enhancer and that a lot of horses don't need it?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Kasept

What is the story exactly? That horses get Lasix when they train? That horses can have bad feet that need constant attention? That horses colic and die? That undocumented workers are employed on the backstretch? Fold in the sensationalized video.. It's news that owners want to win at Saratoga? That barns are happy to lose underachievers to claims? That outfits utilize various supplements in feeding regimens? That treatment options include pin firing and shockwave therapy? What elements of the 'story' were revelations to you?

There are bad apples in this game Steve. You know it, I know it, and most people on this board know it. A large percentage of the people in the game are good and care about the animals, but certainly not all of them.

The sport doesn't police itself very well. Since it isn't proactive, something like this was always going to happen. I'm no PETA fan, not by a longshot. But I also know there is some truth in that video. I didn't need to see the video to know it either.

With the increase in purses at many tracks, horses have gotten the short end of the stick from some guys that are just taking advantage of the situation. Any idiot like myself that can read past performances can see what is happening. Every serious handicapper on this board could make a list of guys that we think cheat and / or don't treat horses well without blinking an eye. The system is a mess. It is inviting this kind of behavior.

There have always been some bad guys in racing. There will always be bad guys in racing. But racing can't keep letting them be bad guys and get away with it.

[cmorioles]

Nobody has mentioned the drug that was given daily to all horses to increase metabolism. Does anyone doubt that was true? Didn't we here of this same thing being done by Baffert? Some thyroid med for horses without a thyroid condition?

In my opinion, this is the absolute worst thing in the video. Giving drugs to enhance performance, not for medical reasons, is as bad as it gets. This was a known practice for Baffert. And what did he get for it? Nothing. That is why I have no faith in the people running the racetracks to actually do anything.

I wonder what a 9 minute video made by horse racing about the care of horses would look like. It would be the all wonderful care and love of horses. Obviously both would be extreme. The truth is in the middle somewhere, and some of the middle isn't pretty right now.

[The Bid]

That's not standard procedure at all. To treat any horse the way Nehro was treated is not normal procedure, and it was extremely disturbing to watch. You can tell when the blacksmith backed Blasi off he wasn't happy w the feet. The groom was so clueless he was still trying to brush his feet.

I think a lot of Blasi language was just being a knowitall cowboy. That's how he talks, f word is an adjective in Oklahoma.

Very hard to defend that video whether it was shot over 10 months or 10 minutes.

I would like to know what the insurance was on Nehro, who insurer was, and what he was put down for, and who made that decision

Zayat is claiming he had no idea the horses feet were that terrible on twitter

PETA always wants to sensationalize these stories but it's real hard to dispute what was shot on video. The language and disdain for the horses, the willingness to discuss defrauding the irs, uscis, not good. I'm floored

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Nobody has mentioned the drug that was given daily to all horses to increase metabolism. Does anyone doubt that was true? Didn't we here of this same thing being done by Baffert? Some thyroid med for horses without a thyroid condition?

In my opinion, this is the absolute worst thing in the video. Giving drugs to enhance performance, not for medical reasons, is as bad as it gets. This was a known practice for Baffert. And what did he get for it? Nothing. That is why I have no faith in the people running the racetracks to actually do anything.

I wonder what a 9 minute video made by horse racing about the care of horses would look like. It would be the all wonderful care and love of horses. Obviously both would be extreme. The truth is in the middle somewhere, and some of the middle isn't pretty right now.

To me that is the damming part of the video and indefensible. I would love is Dr Allday would comment on the practice of giving drugs for NON INDICATED matters of health. Apparently the only reason to give to horses is because they are a horse.