Yet another track that is dead to me

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The longer terms problems would have been short term problems w/o them.

How do you think racing would fare if they built a casinos right down the road from the tracks and we got nothing but competition? While the tracks seem a bit like traitors now that they have morphed into gaming companies a whole lot of them would have surely went under especially when the economy went south. We may not like the direction that many have gone in but we cant race without them either.

I think that it is naive to believe that racing could have figured out some sort effective national strategy that would have stemmed the tide against casino's. Sports betting isnt that close especially if the Supreme Court declines to hear NJ's case. Not to mention that it is already easy to set up an online sports wagering account currently. Anyone who wants to make a wager on a sporting event in this country shouldnt have any problem doing so.

While there is no doubt that the money hasnt exactly been well spent, it is difficult to make a case that w/o slots revenue we would be in a better place.

Setting up a sports wagering account isn't difficult. Getting paid without setting off red flags is another matter.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The longer terms problems would have been short term problems w/o them.

How do you think racing would fare if they built a casinos right down the road from the tracks and we got nothing but competition? While the tracks seem a bit like traitors now that they have morphed into gaming companies a whole lot of them would have surely went under especially when the economy went south. We may not like the direction that many have gone in but we cant race without them either.

I think that it is naive to believe that racing could have figured out some sort effective national strategy that would have stemmed the tide against casino's. Sports betting isnt that close especially if the Supreme Court declines to hear NJ's case. Not to mention that it is already easy to set up an online sports wagering account currently. Anyone who wants to make a wager on a sporting event in this country shouldnt have any problem doing so.

While there is no doubt that the money hasnt exactly been well spent, it is difficult to make a case that w/o slots revenue we would be in a better place.

I dont agree with any of this.

I think we are much closer to legalized sports betting, state by state, then people think. Revenue streams are drying up and that apple is too big when big gov programs started to become unsustainable.

Racing should improve their product, their distribution, the takeout percentages. It would have grown under better management.

1. Why is it not legal in all 50 states to wager online? A stronger lobby and nationalized effort could have made this happen IMO.

2. Why is it that after HD has been out for 15 years or you cant even stream a HD telecast until recently, much less see it on TV. I can watch Youtube of some nobody in HD but I cant watch a sport that is mostly a television event with the best possible view?

3. Why cant we get it so the withholding threshold was higher so professional or recreational players do not have to wait sometimes a year to get their rightful money?

4. Takeout has been beaten to death but still, it should not be blended into the mid 20's. A first year math student could be presented the numbers and asked is this a good investment and they would laugh and say of course not.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by JJP

Setting up a sports wagering account isn't difficult. Getting paid without setting off red flags is another matter.

I haven't had any issues in a long time

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

4. Takeout has been beaten to death but still, it should not be blended into the mid 20's. A first year math student could be presented the numbers and asked is this a good investment and they would laugh and say of course not.

Nobody wants us to look at this as an investment, we are supposed to look at it as entertainment. Hasn't that been made abundantly clear by now?

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I haven't had any issues in a long time

Its really besides the point. The real point is that sports gambling is much closer than you realize, and like 10 Pt Move up said, state governments are looking for more and more ways to get additional revenue. Why let the offshores and mob get the benefits? Guys like Adelson are already worried about it.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Nobody wants us to look at this as an investment, we are supposed to look at it as entertainment. Hasn't that been made abundantly clear by now?

CJ thats basically what I do.

I look at it like golf fees to a country club, a player has to know the math makes it very unlikely you come out ahead so just figure it into your disposable income. So instead of say $500 a month to one hobby its $500 a month to the race track.

I think thats what race executives understand as well. I dont think they relate to keeping a customer long term, they know with the math its very unlikely that they do. They need to grind them for a short term until they leave. They are likely much more focused on attracting new customers due to this inevitable churn so to speak.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by JJP

Its really besides the point. The real point is that sports gambling is much closer than you realize, and like 10 Pt Move up said, state governments are looking for more and more ways to get additional revenue. Why let the offshores and mob get the benefits? Guys like Adelson are already worried about it.

Actually it is much further away than you believe. Have you not paid attention to the state of NJ and Monmouth's bid? The state passed the laws and Monmouth was a willing sponsor but they have lost in Fed court every time so far. The have 1 appeal left, to the supreme court which may not even decide to hear the case. Other states have attached themselves to case as you are correct in that they are looking to grab revenue where ever they can. However as it currently stands the odds of widespread sports wagering looks fuzzy.

http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowla...stponed-again/


http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowla...ent/#more-8137

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually it is much further away than you believe. Have you not paid attention to the state of NJ and Monmouth's bid? The state passed the laws and Monmouth was a willing sponsor but they have lost in Fed court every time so far. The have 1 appeal left, to the supreme court which may not even decide to hear the case. Other states have attached themselves to case as you are correct in that they are looking to grab revenue where ever they can. However as it currently stands the odds of widespread sports wagering looks fuzzy.

http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowla...stponed-again/


http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowla...ent/#more-8137

You wait till granny starts losing her SS. That will change the pols and they can just pass national legislation which will bypass the courts issue.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually it is much further away than you believe. Have you not paid attention to the state of NJ and Monmouth's bid? The state passed the laws and Monmouth was a willing sponsor but they have lost in Fed court every time so far. The have 1 appeal left, to the supreme court which may not even decide to hear the case. Other states have attached themselves to case as you are correct in that they are looking to grab revenue where ever they can. However as it currently stands the odds of widespread sports wagering looks fuzzy.

http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowla...stponed-again/


http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowla...ent/#more-8137

I listen to a number of shows in Las Vegas and the general feeling is that national legalization of sports betting is imminent. Maybe not in next year or two, but it IS coming. Guys like Adelson will try to do everything in their power to stop it, but in the end the added revenue that it will bring in will cancel out anything guys like Adelson will try to do. Just too big of a money grab, and the states know it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by JJP

I listen to a number of shows in Las Vegas and the general feeling is that national legalization of sports betting is imminent. Maybe not in next year or two, but it IS coming. Guys like Adelson will try to do everything in their power to stop it, but in the end the added revenue that it will bring in will cancel out anything guys like Adelson will try to do. Just too big of a money grab, and the states know it.

Yeah the states want the revenue but it hardly seems imminent since every recent ruling has gone against widespread legalization and the current DOJ certainly isnt friendly.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8...ts-betting-law

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah the states want the revenue but it hardly seems imminent since every recent ruling has gone against widespread legalization and the current DOJ certainly isnt friendly.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8...ts-betting-law

thats only because the current national laws are written that way, laws can be rewritten and the the DOJ cant do a thing when that happens.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

thats only because the current national laws are written that way, laws can be rewritten and the the DOJ cant do a thing when that happens.

Right but why do you think this will happen? Of what interest is it of Congress to provide revenue flows to states especially when the Senate majority leader is from Nevada? Not to mention our current President would not seem to be interested in signing a bill that every major sports league is 100% against.

[asudevil]

Not happening!

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Right but why do you think this will happen? Of what interest is it of Congress to provide revenue flows to states especially when the Senate majority leader is from Nevada? Not to mention our current President would not seem to be interested in signing a bill that every major sports league is 100% against.

right you are talking about today and I am talking about what is going to happen when revenue streams start to run out. My guess is they take the power and taxation away from the states, or at least take a large share.

The states and gov are just getting into the real money problems, they are not going to turn a blind eye to lots of tax money for "morality" reasons, and not when the rest of the world already does it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

right you are talking about today and I am talking about what is going to happen when revenue streams start to run out. My guess is they take the power and taxation away from the states, or at least take a large share.

The states and gov are just getting into the real money problems, they are not going to turn a blind eye to lots of tax money for "morality" reasons, and not when the rest of the world already does it.

Your talking in such generalized terms I'm not sure what you are referring to when you speak of revenue streams running out.

You spoke of wide spread legalized sports wagering being imminent. I guess we have different views on what imminent means