Could this happen?

[richard burch]

what if 2 other tracks decided to band together and offer an option to the 2 races after the derby? since there is no "commisioner" or country wide governing body, why not take advantage of people who are disapproving of the current traditional format and the possibility that we may never see another triple crown winner.

something like this....

3 weeks after the derby another track (say monmouth park) offers a 1 mile and 3/16 ths race for 2 million dollars for 3 year old colts and geldings and fillys.

and then another track (say delaware park) has another race at 1 mile and a half for 2.5 million dollars with the same conditions.

if that were to happen, would it screw up everything?

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by richard burch

what if 2 other tracks decided to band together and offer an option to the 2 races after the derby? since there is no "commisioner" or country wide governing body, why not take advantage of people who are disapproving of the current traditional format and the possibility that we may never see another triple crown winner.

something like this....

3 weeks after the derby another track (say monmouth park) offers a 1 mile and 3/16 ths race for 2 million dollars for 3 year old colts and geldings and fillys.

and then another track (say delaware park) has another race at 1 mile and a half for 2.5 million dollars with the same conditions.

if that were to happen, would it screw up everything?

It took the prospects of a $2 million bonus to entice Diaz to skip the Preakness in favor of the Jersey Derby with Spend a Buck. I'm thinking that now it would take significantly more than $2 million to get the owner of the Derby winner to give up the chance of making racing history. I just don't see Monmouth or Delaware Park ponying up that kind of money. Brennan was using the bonus to get attention for First Jersey Securities as much as for Garden State Park.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by richard burch

what if 2 other tracks decided to band together and offer an option to the 2 races after the derby? since there is no "commisioner" or country wide governing body, why not take advantage of people who are disapproving of the current traditional format and the possibility that we may never see another triple crown winner.

something like this....

3 weeks after the derby another track (say monmouth park) offers a 1 mile and 3/16 ths race for 2 million dollars for 3 year old colts and geldings and fillys.

and then another track (say delaware park) has another race at 1 mile and a half for 2.5 million dollars with the same conditions.

if that were to happen, would it screw up everything?

There is a governing body that decides whether or not a stakes race will be graded and what the grading will be. And when it comes to breeding, graded stakes wins and placings are what is important. If a track decided to have a race to compete with the Preakness and Belmont, it is unlikely that those races would be given graded stakes accreditation. Without graded stakes accreditation, the best horses are not going to run.

I would say that the scenario you asked about is extremely unlikely to happen.

[Kasept]

Spend a Buck Is Back in the Money Again : Jersey Derby Victory Earns Colt a Record $2.6 Million

May 28, 1985|BILL CHRISTINE | Times Staff Writer

CHERRY HILL, N.J. — Spend a Buck carried Laffit Pincay across the finish line and $2.6 million to the vault in a little more than two minutes Monday, but trainer Cam Gambolati's heart was in his shoe by the time the brilliant 3-year-old got to the wire first in the Jersey Derby.

Challenged fore and aft--by Huddle Up for the lead through the first six furlongs and by Creme Fraiche on the inside and El Basco on the outside in the battle through the stretch--Spend a Buck proved best by a neck before 30,360 fans at Garden State Park, assuring owners Dennis and Linda Diaz of the $600,000 winner's purse and a $2 million bonus, the biggest payday in racing history.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Spend a Buck Is Back in the Money Again : Jersey Derby Victory Earns Colt a Record $2.6 Million

May 28, 1985|BILL CHRISTINE | Times Staff Writer

CHERRY HILL, N.J. — Spend a Buck carried Laffit Pincay across the finish line and $2.6 million to the vault in a little more than two minutes Monday, but trainer Cam Gambolati's heart was in his shoe by the time the brilliant 3-year-old got to the wire first in the Jersey Derby.

Challenged fore and aft--by Huddle Up for the lead through the first six furlongs and by Creme Fraiche on the inside and El Basco on the outside in the battle through the stretch--Spend a Buck proved best by a neck before 30,360 fans at Garden State Park, assuring owners Dennis and Linda Diaz of the $600,000 winner's purse and a $2 million bonus, the biggest payday in racing history.

The single event that switched my attention to TB's only. Great day

[Danzig]

it really put pimlico and belmont on their toes when they opted to take spend a buck elsewhere. it brought about some big changes.
it might be time for someone to do that again.
pimlico's guy would do well to follow belmonts lead, and dress up the preakness day card. they were proactive rather than just hoping for a tc gamble to make it a big day.

[Linny]

In his return editorial, Steven Crist pointed out that even Mr. Janney appeared willing to discuss changes to the TC. (This coming on the heels of this traditionalist's colt coming undone on two weeks notice in Baltimore.) Crist mentioned that if Janney were to rally the board and NYRA faithful, that Belmont could alter the TC by simply scheduling the 2015 Belmont for late June. No doubt Pimlico would follow suit and move the Preakness and VOILA! the Triple Crown is altered.

As for setting up an alternative, when Brennan made the attempt he required bonus the earner to have won HIS preps. Had SaB not won the Cherry Hill Mile and the Garden State Stakes, then the Derby the whole bonus would have been moot.

A few years ago when the BC was again returned to SoCal, Repole mentioned putting up money and holding a "Cup in exile" in NY in the fall.

I don't think that it is likely, based on the players involved but I would guess that maybe enough people might be convinced that the "TC isn't winnable, so why try" and happily look to a potential alternative payday.

[Cannon Shell]

It could only happen if another network put up monumental money to try to steal the limelight.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Linny

In his return editorial, Steven Crist pointed out that even Mr. Janney appeared willing to discuss changes to the TC. (This coming on the hills of this traditionalist's colt coming undone on two weeks notice in Baltimore.) Crist mentioned that if Janney were to rally the board and NYRA faithful, that Belmont could alter the TC by simply scheduling the 2015 Belmont for late June. No doubt Pimlico would follow suit and move the Preakness and VOILA! the Triple Crown is altered.

Putting aside any logistical issues from the weekend aside, after the huge financial success that was Belmont Day 2014, why would NYRA mess with something that worked so well on the racing side? In addition, moving Belmont Day to late June (with a comparable stakes schedule) would likely have an adverse impact on the Saratoga season. Don't fix what ain't broken.

[Dawgswin]

Admittedly I am ignorant of the costs and risks associated with international shipping, but it seems to me the future of any triple crown or triple crown competitor would rest with someone like HRH Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani or my good friend HRH Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum.

The type of money individuals like those two (P.B.U.T.) could bring to bear despite recent downturns, with little (any?) consideration to long-term profitability would be the only thing that could significantly change the landscape. THey would be...as the kids say these days, a "game changer."

Now whether or not they are interested in doing so? Who knows.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Dawgswin

Admittedly I am ignorant of the costs and risks associated with international shipping, but it seems to me the future of any triple crown or triple crown competitor would rest with someone like HRH Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani or my good friend HRH Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum.

The type of money individuals like those two (P.B.U.T.) could bring to bear despite recent downturns, with little (any?) consideration to long-term profitability would be the only thing that could significantly change the landscape. THey would be...as the kids say these days, a "game changer."

Now whether or not they are interested in doing so? Who knows.

I know for a fact that one of the individuals you mentioned had considered the idea a few years ago with the idea of having the race after the Derby be held at Hollywood. How serious a consideration, I couldn't say.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

There is a governing body that decides whether or not a stakes race will be graded and what the grading will be. And when it comes to breeding, graded stakes wins and placings are what is important. If a track decided to have a race to compete with the Preakness and Belmont, it is unlikely that those races would be given graded stakes accreditation. Without graded stakes accreditation, the best horses are not going to run.

I would say that the scenario you asked about is extremely unlikely to happen.

With good enough fields, the race would eventually become graded. I don't think it matters much to people what a race's grade is once they reach a certain level. The first thought that came to my mind was the race they put together in 1990 at Arlington to get Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, and Criminal Type together.

[dylbert]

Several tracks could band together to create an alternate series.

Mid-April 9f Arkansas Derby @ Oaklawn Park
Mid-May 9.5f Super Derby @ Louisiana Downs
Mid-June 10f Haskell Invitational @ Monmouth Park

Why not? None of these tracks have connections with Churchill, Magna, or NYRA. OP & LaD have racino cash for purses. Keeneland, Parx, and other tracks are possibilities, too.

NBA was challenged by ABA. NFL was challenged by AFL, WFL, & USFL. Why not challenge Triple Crown? Jersey Derby caused ripple in 1985. Is it time for paradigm shift?

[King Glorious]

Or what about the inaugural running of the Pacific Classic, won by Best Pal over Twilight Agenda and Unbridled.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

With good enough fields, the race would eventually become graded. I don't think it matters much to people what a race's grade is once they reach a certain level. The first thought that came to my mind was the race they put together in 1990 at Arlington to get Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, and Criminal Type together.

Yes, it could become graded if the fields were really good, but it's kind of a "catch 22". I don't think the fields would be very good because I think owners would rather run in the TC races. But if the purses were huge, there might be strong fields and the race could probably get graded within a few years.

Nothing is impossible. If a track was going to start having $5 million races, that might attract some of the best horses away from the TC. I don't see any track doing that. It wouldn't be profitable.

With regard to Sheikh Mohammed, he already has his big day of racing in March. And as far as I know, I think he is a big fan of the Kentucky Derby and has always wanted to win it. I don't think he would want to do anything that would lessen the prestige of the Ky Derby.

[Linny]

For something like an alternate TC to succeed there would need to be sufficient ill will toward the original. It would require owners and trainers to have cause to demand another path. That doesn't appear to be the case, certain frustrations notwithstanding.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by dylbert

Several tracks could band together to create an alternate series.

Mid-April 9f Arkansas Derby @ Oaklawn Park
Mid-May 9.5f Super Derby @ Louisiana Downs
Mid-June 10f Haskell Invitational @ Monmouth Park

Why not? None of these tracks have connections with Churchill, Magna, or NYRA. OP & LaD have racino cash for purses. Keeneland, Parx, and other tracks are possibilities, too.

NBA was challenged by ABA. NFL was challenged by AFL, WFL, & USFL. Why not challenge Triple Crown? Jersey Derby caused ripple in 1985. Is it time for paradigm shift?

your on the same track to what i was thinking. sometimes someone else just wants to challenge the system like the usfl, afl etc....theres enough rich people out there to do it.

and i was only using monmouth and delaware as examples. regardless of what tracks would be in on it, i think it could happen.