Pres. Administration Intentionally Lied

[Danzig]

one, i don't know why anyone would believe any politician, ever.
two, it's been said all over, including here (and linked from fact check among others) since he first made the claim, that there was NO guarantee you'd be able to keep your coverage. it was bs then, it's bs now, it's been bs all along.


the aca is the most convoluted clusterfu** to come out of d.c. in god knows how long-it may be the biggest mess of a law EVER. all the contortions being engaged in, in order to get health care for everyone.
i know some don't like the thought of single payer-it would have been the best way to handle it. that way, everyone was covered. no subsidies, no employer offered coverage, no website trying to link to every other bureau that has some say in if you get a subsidy, how much, if you qualify, are you a citizen, married, income, kids....oh, one moved mid-year..oh, you got a divorce. now you have to pay back part of last years subsidy....
oh, you're working for someone who offers group coverage? well, no subsidy for you-you can only get that if you buy thru an exchange.
how many people will want their employer to get rid of their healthcare plan, so they can get a subsidy?

what a mess. all to avoid single payer.
if you marry, divorce, a child graduates and moves out (goes in the service maybe?) you change jobs, maybe get a raise...all that figures in the following year for that years subsidy. and we all know that life doesn't only change on 12/31 of each year.

oh boy.


all i can say to those who are caught by surprise now-guess you shoulda been paying attention the last four-five years.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

one, i don't know why anyone would believe any politician, ever.
two, it's been said all over, including here (and linked from fact check among others) since he first made the claim, that there was NO guarantee you'd be able to keep your coverage. it was bs then, it's bs now, it's been bs all along.


the aca is the most convoluted clusterfu** to come out of d.c. in god knows how long-it may be the biggest mess of a law EVER. all the contortions being engaged in, in order to get health care for everyone.
i know some don't like the thought of single payer-it would have been the best way to handle it. that way, everyone was covered. no subsidies, no employer offered coverage, no website trying to link to every other bureau that has some say in if you get a subsidy, how much, if you qualify, are you a citizen, married, income, kids....oh, one moved mid-year..oh, you got a divorce. now you have to pay back part of last years subsidy....
oh, you're working for someone who offers group coverage? well, no subsidy for you-you can only get that if you buy thru an exchange.
how many people will want their employer to get rid of their healthcare plan, so they can get a subsidy?

what a mess. all to avoid single payer.
if you marry, divorce, a child graduates and moves out (goes in the service maybe?) you change jobs, maybe get a raise...all that figures in the following year for that years subsidy. and we all know that life doesn't only change on 12/31 of each year.

oh boy.


all i can say to those who are caught by surprise now-guess you shoulda been paying attention the last four-five years.

You are right. There were plenty of people who predicted this all along. Most Republicans claimed it all along. It was one of those things where Obama was claiming one thing and the Republicans were claiming the opposite. I think most conservative voters believed the Republicans and most liberal voters believed Obama. Most of the people in the middle probably weren't sure who to believe.

Anyway, the truth is finally coming out. It is probably no surprise to 40% of the population but I think it's a surprise to everyone else including the liberal media. Even NBC is making a big deal out of this (and I think they should).

I think this is a huge deal. There have been several little things that have happened over the last few years that have hurt both parties but I don't think any of those things compare to this. I think this is a deal changer. I think this will really hurt the democrats. I could be wrong. We will see what happens.

[Danzig]

i wouldn't go so far as to say one party said one thing, the other party another. has more to do with common sense and reality, not party politics. and neither party seems to have much ability to exhibit common sense or delve into reality.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

Obamacare was designed to fail. It is a necessary rung on the ladder to single-payer, socialized medicine (Medicare for all). We will go from Obamacare, the last stand for health insurance companies, to a public option, where insurance companies bail out en masse, to the kind of universal coverage that just about every other western country provides its citizens. I won't live long enough to see it, but my children and grandchildren will.

this is one of the reasons why they have the individual mandate. health insurers don't want to bail, don't wish to go out of business. it's a huge moneymaker, and there's a reason why health insurance providers stock immediately shot upwards when the scotus ruled that the aca wasn't unconstitutional.

we should have universal coverage-it's one of several glaring flaws in this country, and an embarrassment that other countries do a better job at providing health care than we do.

but hey, how 'bout that stealth destroyer. cool, isn't it?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

we should have universal coverage-it's one of several glaring flaws in this country, and an embarrassment that other countries do a better job at providing health care than we do.

That's why Saudi Kings, with all the money in the world, fly to New York for medical care.

Originally Posted by Danzig

what a mess. all to avoid single payer.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

That's why Saudi Kings, with all the money in the world, fly to New York for medical care.

embarrassment that other countries do a better job at providing health care than we do.

She's talking about health care for average Joe and Joan..not heads of state.

Exactly! We do a great job for the very poor, who can walk into an emergency room anywhere, and can't be turned away, and for the very rich, who can afford the best surgeons and other medical practitioners. It's those in the middle, whether insured or not, that are poorly served.

I am in good health, but my wife is not so fortunate, as she suffers from chronic illnesses like diabetes and endocrine problems that require her to see 5-6 different doctors. Thankfully, we have excellent insurance coverage, but it never fails to amaze me that these doctors NEVER talk to each other, and will prescribe medications for her that sometimes interact poorly with each other.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by bigrun

She's talking about health care for average Joe and Joan..not heads of state.

I don't rank football teams on how many players get to play, I rank them on what they're able to do with their best.

Similar to how I rank our healthcare compared to say Britain or Canada.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I don't rank football teams on how many players get to play, I rank them on what they're able to do with their best.

Similar to how I rank our healthcare compared to say Britain or Canada.

FTFY

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by bigrun

FTFY

Thank You

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

Exactly! We do a great job for the very poor, who can walk into an emergency room anywhere, and can't be turned away, and for the very rich, who can afford the best surgeons and other medical practitioners. It's those in the middle, whether insured or not, that are poorly served.

I am in good health, but my wife is not so fortunate, as she suffers from chronic illnesses like diabetes and endocrine problems that require her to see 5-6 different doctors. Thankfully, we have excellent insurance coverage, but it never fails to amaze me that these doctors NEVER talk to each other, and will prescribe medications for her that sometimes interact poorly with each other.

i shake my head every time i hear someone say 'i don't want to pay for someone else's care'. we've been doing it for years, because those with no insurance and no ability to pay paid nothing. those costs were tacked on to the bills of those of us with insurance.
we have made great strides in medicine, but not how it's delivered. our health care costs are astronomical compared to other industrialized nations-yet our life span is no longer, our health no better.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Thank You

Your welcome..you would do the same for me.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Ur welcome..you would do the same for me.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

That's why Saudi Kings, with all the money in the world, fly to New York for medical care.

[Danzig]

four trophies? to celebrate that saudi kings can get medical care here, but a lot of our own citizens can't?

oh, bravo.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Danzig

four trophies? to celebrate that saudi kings can get medical care here, but a lot of our own citizens can't?

oh, bravo.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by joeydb

repeat.

She's talking about health care for average Joe and Joan..not heads of state

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

four trophies? to celebrate that saudi kings can get medical care here, but a lot of our own citizens can't?

oh, bravo.

Our current health care system certainly isn't great. I would certainly like to see some reform. But overall, I think our health care is the best in the world. Yes, it is expensive but there is always going to be a trade-off. In other countries where it is cheaper, it's not as cheap as it appears because most of those countries have higher taxes, so you are still paying for it indirectly. Not only that, in many of those countries there are long waits to get fairly routine procedures. If I want to get an MRI right now, I'd rather pay $500 for it right now rather than have to wait for 5 months and and get it for free.

When you compare our health care to other countries, there are things better about ours and there are things better about theirs. But when you weigh all the pros and cons, I still think ours is the best.

By the way, I have no problem requiring everyone to have health insurance. In California, everyone has to have auto insurance. If auto insurance is required, I don't see a problem with health insurance being required.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

four trophies? to celebrate that saudi kings can get medical care here, but a lot of our own citizens can't?

oh, bravo.

Um - no - four trophies to celebrate that we have the best medical system in the world - the one that Saudi Kings - who can afford the best - come to in order to save their own lives.

Don't you think that's indicative of the quality and innovation that we had prior to this Obamacare BS? You think we just magically whipped up some great doctors and facilities for the once in a while that some bigshot comes into the country to get treated? Get real. We have made many strides in the access to healthcare, the technology of new treatments, medicines, and the like ever since "modern" medicine first started during the Civil War. That's 150 years of progress.

I should say we "had" the best because you're going to get your way - the medical industry will essentially be destroyed and we will be as mediocre as other nations. We'll get the UK's breast cancer survivability stats instead of our current, higher stats.

Look up the cancer survival statistics in general. Ours are the highest. Anything that adds delay to treatment is a bad idea, and that is exactly what will happen when the red tape gets in the way, and when doctors start retiring early, and when there are fewer applying to medical school. Do the math. Less supply meeting more demand equals longer delays in treatment. And, consequently - higher death rates. These aren't reported unless the person actually makes it to the hospital. Dying while waiting for an appointment or a surgery is easily ignored by the government statisticians.

Obamacare's biggest sin is that it is STUPID. You can't force "bending the cost curve" without DENYING service, and allowing whatever the consequences of that to manifest themselves on would-be patients.

And by the way - there is no such thing as "single payer". That is the name for socialized medicine, yes, but the payers are the same as always - all us suckers who work for a living. If 47% are paying no taxes, the other 53% are your "single payer".

It's time to stop drinking the Obama Kool Aid.