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#21
10-22-2006, 11:05 AM
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Two things that really separate two of these records from all others imo....
Dr. Fager's because of the weight he was carrying....didn't know that, thanks Steve....he was carrying 19 lbs more than the horse he shares it with.... Secretariat for a whole lot of reasons, but the biggest one imo is that he did it by himself....he had no pressure and Turcott just let him go and for a horse to go that distance in that time without any horse hooked is the thing that makes this record simply amazing.... 
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#22
10-22-2006, 12:04 PM
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#23
10-22-2006, 12:15 PM
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AP Track records
1 M Dr. Fager 4 134 August 24, 1968 1:32 1/5 1 1/8 M Spectacular Bid 4 130 July 19, 1980 1:46 1/5 It would have taken the great Bid 14 seconds carrying a "feather" to run that last furlong against the good Doctor
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#24
10-22-2006, 12:58 PM
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__________________
http://www.facebook.com/cajungator26
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#25
10-22-2006, 01:16 PM
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I didn't see Cougar II's 11f in 2:11:0 on your list. Yes, it was on turf, but it was the fastest recorded at the distance on any surface at the time. All hail His Felinity!
Last edited by Pedigree Ann : 10-22-2006 at 01:24 PM.
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#26
10-22-2006, 01:21 PM
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nice attempt at twisting my post into what my 'reasoning' would show. other horses shared the wins in a row record with cigar and citation, yet when a horse is attempting to tie or break it, as it was recently, you didn't see mister frisky and hallowed dreams when it was being discussed. just like other horses besides colin and personal ensign retired undefeated. yet their records are nothing compared to those two great champions. obviously the fastest is the record. BUT dr fager set his under far different, and far more strenuous circumstances than najran. i see no reason to give them co-billing. others do. good for them and you.
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#27
10-22-2006, 01:21 PM
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Of course I believe the greatest race of all time was Secretariat's Belmont...it should be noted that he was timed in 1:59 flat for ten furlongs that day and racetrack timers who kept the watch on him claim he broke the record for 13 furlongs as well before Ronnie could finally pull him up! And while he did the last half by himself, he first disposed of a great thoroughbred (Sham) in suicidal early fractions...lets not forget that fact! Everybody watching the race that day was crying, "he's going too fast, too fast, what is Turcott trying to do, kill the horse?" Of course he had no control, he was just along for the ride! Secretariat subsequently set the world mark for 9 furlongs later that year in the Marlboro but this was a super race! All the records are great, and nothing away from the Bid and the good Doctor...but there has been only one Secretariat and only one perfect race...the 73 Belmont!
__________________
"Always be yourself...unless you suck!"
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#29
10-22-2006, 01:44 PM
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http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_4520189
just went to equidaily and they had an article a guy wrote about the top ten records in the sport. sec, bid and dr fager all made the list, as did cigar. no mention of najran, mister frisky or hallowed dreams! whatdya know.
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#30
10-22-2006, 01:50 PM
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#31
10-22-2006, 04:39 PM
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The fact of Secretariats' speed increasing at every quarter is jaw-dropping to me. That stand out to me,but Dr Fagers' accomplishments are Super, considering the weights of todays' thoros! The Bid was a great one too!
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#32
10-22-2006, 04:46 PM
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There really is not a bad choice or a wrong choice. All are world records and each is the best it’s ever been done. The majority opinion seems to be that Secretariat, Fager, or Spectacular Bid holds the most impressive record. My own opinion is that Super Red holds the most impressive performance and it is really not that close per my view. Following are the reasons for my conclusion:
Point 1 – Purely Mathematical The link below shows a chart of the average pace (seconds-per-furlong) for the standing world records between 6fl and 16fl. The curve fit line shows the expected WR average pace based on all the data points. This curve follows a natural log function as most empirical measurements in the natural world tend to do (thus the derivation of natural logs). The graph on the right side is amplified to illustrate the difference between Bid and Red as per the expected record pace. Red is fast by 0.475% while Bid is fast by 0.311%. Dr Fager’s time falls precisely on the expected world record pace for a mile. So based purely on a mathematical basis, Secretariat has the most unusual time. http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...at/wr_pace.jpg Point 2 – Time and Win Margin Time and margin of victory tend to validate each other. If you see a fast time with a narrow win margin, it’s a good bet that the track is playing very fast, especially if there are two or more horses finishing close to the victor. If you see a fast time with a large win margin, then the odds are that the horse generated an outstanding performance. Per this line of thinking, Secretariat broke the existing 12fl Belmont Park record by a whopping 2.6 seconds and won by an equally astounding 31 lengths suggesting an absolutely amazing performance, otherwise, the margin of victory would have been much smaller if the time was due primarily to a supped-up track. Bid broke the Santa Anita 10fl track record by an impressive 0.8 seconds and won by 3.5 lengths which indicates that the place horse also broke the track record. This suggests that the track was probably playing very fast. Dr Fager broke the 1 mile record at Arlington Park by 0.4 seconds and won by 10 lengths, thereby validating the time with a large margin of victory. He was also toting 134lbs which adds to the magnitude of the feat. Accounting for weight is a difficult proposition. The old standard use to be 2lbs = 1 length. An Australian study I read stated that 1.5 kilograms (3.3lbs) = 1 length at a distance of 1 mile. Another study I found suggested that weight actually aided some horses in deep stretch via an added momentum factor (I don’t buy this myself). A famous trainer once stated that weight does not matter much unless the impost exceeds 127 lbs for males and 123 for females. Also, the size of the horse makes a difference as to how well a horse carries weight. (Old Forego didn’t mind weight at all.) Based on all these varying opinions, I’ve concluded that 2.5lbs = 1 length at weights above 127lbs. This relationship suggests that Fager may be credited with (134-127) 7 lbs = 2.8 lengths (7/2.5) = 0.47 seconds (1 second = 6 lengths) running time. This means that Fager broke the track record by the equivalent of 0.87 seconds with a 10 length margin of victory. This result is more impressive than Bid’s mark, but no where near Secretariat’s performance. Point 3 – Speed Figures Dr Quirin and Andrew Beyer both published that Secretariat’s Belmont (148 originally, later adjusted down to 138 on the current Beyer scale) remains the highest ever figure awarded. That’s good enough for me. Point 4 – Age 3yos are not supposed to beat older horses. The 4&up group typically improve their running times by an average of 4 lengths (10fl ref distance) as compared to their 3yo run times. The fact that Secretariat put up such an amazing WR mark as an early summer 3yo just adds to his legend. Here is a bit of trivia for you folks…Secretariat is the youngest horse ever to break the 2 minute mark going 10fl on the dirt…1:59:2, Ky Derby…3yrs,36days. There have been a slim few 3yos and many older horses to run sub 2 minute times, mostly on the typically fast west coast tracks, but none as young as Red. Point 5 – Other Considerations The fact that Red ran his WR time in the third leg of the TC races makes it all the more amazing…10fl in 1:59:2, 9.5fl in 1:53:2, and 12fl in 2:24:0 all in a span of 5 weeks at three different tracks pretty much speaks for itself. Just winning the TC is nearly impossible, but to break all three track records is simply astounding and will never happen again. Grass times should never be compared to dirt times. The break point is 6.5fl. At distances greater than 6.5fl, grass races are faster. At distances less than 6.5fl, dirt races are faster.
__________________
I'm greener than Al Gore so therefore I'm green enough! Last edited by sham : 10-24-2006 at 01:58 PM.
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#33
10-22-2006, 06:39 PM
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People outside of racing have heard of Secretariat. Ask them about Dr. Fager and they will ask you if you are talking about your dentist.
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#35
10-22-2006, 08:19 PM
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i wonder if football or baseball fans give a rats behind about what 'casual observers' feel about their sport....somehow i don't. of course, i don't care much what non-racing fans have to say about racing either. there aren't many fans out there, i'd imagine that's why most of us come here! no one else to talk to about it.
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#36
10-22-2006, 08:23 PM
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I'm glad that I found the ESPN board which led me here. I can talk about horse racing all day long now 
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#37
10-22-2006, 09:07 PM
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Bernardini's 10-panel record of 1:57 flat in the 2006 Breeders' Cup Classic was the most impressive to me
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#38
10-22-2006, 09:12 PM
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LOL...
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